Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Rifle weight for 458 Lott or 470 Capstick

Hi, anyone have recommendations on what a "good weight" is for a 458 Lott or 470 Capstick both with/without scope? I'm not recoil shy but I'm also not a recoil sponge like some of you guys.



Chuck

Well, if you've read any of the other threads here you'll see I've had a little Lott drama and haven't shot mine that much but that aside, mine is 9.5 lbs with a leup 2.5x scope and that seems about right for all day carrying.

10+ if you are going to shoot it more than two times. LOL

9.5-10.5 is a good final weight.

my 470 is 9.7 empty, my my 416 Rigby is 10.2 empty and both are very shootable (read 8-10 shots per session max)

So 9.5 lbs without scope/mounts and 10.5 lbs with scope/mounts would be a reasonable weight?

Thanks,

Chuck

Obviously, you are more man than I am...At 10.4 lbs my 460 G&A is all I want for 10 shots...then I need a break for the better part of an hour or I start to anticipate letting the shot go (read flinch)...It is fun for the first 4 or 5 then starts to be work.

Used to have a Browning Safari in 458 Win that weighed 8.5 lbs and it would back you out from under your hat with full throttle loads.

IMO, yes.
There's a balance between carry-ability and shoot-ability. You don't need to shoot full loads all the time and can work up to them if needs be.

note that at that weight I will only shoot 8-10 full power rounds per session max.

I like to shoot my rifles a bunch more than that at the range. Typical day with my 375 H&H is 20 to 30 rounds. 40 rounds or more if I'm doing load development. I guess I can shoot some reduced loads using 400g XTP pistol bullets or add some weight to the rifle. Or maybe it just won't kick that much ...



Chuck

colorado,

There's a BIG difference in recoil between a 375 H&H and any 458.
In ft-lbs it's something like 50% more, depending on several factors.

But how recoil is PERCEIVED also depends on several factors, as you no doubt are already aware: balance of rifle, shape and fit of stock, type of recoil pad, etc, etc. But you can also add weight for the range and remove it after by using an ammo sock on the buttstock and sticking 6 or 7 of those big rounds in it. That adds weight (about 1/2 lb) and slows recoil velocity.

My Ruger No.1 in 45-70 "Improved" generates 80 ft-lbs of recoil with its top load of the 500-grain Hornady. My CZ550 458 Win, with top handloads about 70 ft-lbs. The 7.8 lb #1 is no more "painfull" than the 10.2 lb CZ (both with scopes mounted)because of its fit and balance. The #1 has a faster recoil and the 458 a "heavier" but slower recoil. My 458 is pretty much the equal of the Lott becase of it's long magazine. The bare-bones rifle weighs 9.3 lbs; with scope and rings it's 10.2 lbs.

Thanks CZ 550, I have two options really going to 470 Capstick. First: rebore, which will make the rifle lighter and less muzzle heavy and save a bunch of work/money (inletting, installing new sights, barrel band, extra recoil lug, etc.) The rifle in this case will weigh about 9.5 lbs without scope/rings etc.

Second: rebarrel with a heavier contour barrel, which will require a second recoil reducer to balance it (get rid of the muzzle heavy issue). Advantage to rebarreling is the gun will weigh more and I can get a match grade Krieger barrel. The rifle in this case the rifle will weigh about 11.25 lbs without scope/rings, etc.

Or I could always go with the reboring option and add weight to the foreend and a second recoil reducer to get it to 10.5 lbs without scope/rings ...

Thsnks for bearing with me, decisions decisions lol

Chuck
Regards,
Chuck

I've got a .450 Watts that goes just over 9 lb. I rocks you pretty hard with top loads. I shoot loads tamed down to the .485 Win, and its just fun to shoot. If I wanted to shoot top loads a lot, I'd want a 10 lb gun.

Thanks 5_shot, good information. I better plan for a 10 to 11 lb rifle ...

Chuck

I've had two 458 lotts, the first one was 9 pounds and ported, the second one ~ 10 1/2 pounds. The lighter lott, even with ports was downright objectionable at times. The second rifle was quite managable. The second rifle was built with a ruger #1 take off 458 barrel that had a couple inches cut off the breach and finished out at 22". Perfect barrel contour and balance, and looked pretty good with the barrel band swivel and front sight.

Don't be suprised if you find 10 rounds of full patch 500 loads is about it for a shooting session. I've shot a couple boxes of 375 H&H equivalent loads out of the lott with no problem, but the full patch 500's were a whole different level of recoil.

So 458_Lott, is that 10 rounds from the bench or 10 rounds offhand? I plan to use a lead sled from the bench so it shouldn't be bad even in a lighter rifle. How the recoil is offhand is really my concern.

Chuck

colorado,
My rifles: a 9lb 470Capstick built on a Rem700 using a Rem magnum factory contour, even with a Decelerator pad ... ouch! It needs loading down. A CZ550 in 458Lott (hogsback) ... a beast at full song even with an F990 pad, but very mild as a 458WinMag. Another CZ550 (American) in 416Rigby was mild. My Ruger MkII in 458AccRel (500gr at 2230fps) feels mild with its factory Ruger pad!! I aimed at 10.5lb in the AccRel build and hence used a #6 straight taper cut at 23" and the shank extended an extra inch. It feels heavy with lots of upfront weight due to the barrel contour. I believed I was shooting a 10.5lb rifle until I weighed it today ... 9.75lb with 3 rounds!! I believe that the heavier contoured barrel actually makes the rifle more comfortable though it 'feels heavy'. Another thought ... in both 470Capstick and 458Lott, if you feel compelled to go looking for 2300fps ... build in another pound or better yet 2. Lordy they come alive somewhere just over 2200fps!! I reckon that's why the British went with 500gr at 2150fps as their standard. Most rifles would have given atleast 50fps less in the real world, and at 10lb that's very very easy to cope with.
Cheers...
Con

Thanks Con, I plan to handload exclusively for the 470 Capstick, so I have no issue with shooting 500g bullets at 2150 fps if recoil is an issue for me. I do plan to use a lead sled for load development (not sight in). The rest of my shooting will be offhand or sitting with a sling. The thing is I find my 10.25 lb (without scope, mounts or sling)375 H&H CZ 550 too heavy and too muzzle heavy. So I need to lift more weights, but the reboring should help that. I can always add weight back if feel the need. There's room for another recoil reducer in the butt portion of the stock and I guess my gunsmith can add weight to the forearm if need be.

Appreciate your post, lots of folks are saying the ouch factor definitely goes up once you get to the 458 Lott.

Chuck

I agree with Con that the recoil factor seems to increase exponentially somewhere between 2200 and 2300 fps from a 500-gr!

My CZ550 458 Win will quite easily reach 2300 fps with its long magazine. I normally shoot 500s right at 2200 fps, but I've gone as high as 2282 fps (not near max) and the difference in felt recoil was unexpected, but dramatic! I'll stay with 2200 fps, thank you very much! That's also a very accurate load.

Yes, and nothing beats offhand practice with the heavy-hitters since that is the usual manner of shooting game with them in the field.

colorado,
I've owned CZ550s and 602s in 458WinMag/Lott, 416Rigby and 300WinMag, and used other people's rifles in 375H&H and 358Norma. The best balanced of the lot was the 416Rigby. I think as a 470Capstick your CZ will be a touch muzzle light ... but at 2150fps will be a pleasure to shoot. Use lead shot to weight it as you prefer and have a ball!
Cheers...
Con

Thanks all, I'm sending the rifle in to Jim Dubell at Clearwater reboring in late Oct. after elk season. Hopefully I'll have it back as a 470 Capstick by Jan. or Feb. It will give me time to get dies, cases, bullets together ....

Thanks again,

Chuck