Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Another gun safe question

I will be needing a larger-sized gun safe for my basement (18 long guns or so), and I was wondering how people get these things into their house/basement? Aren't they super-heavy, as well as large and awkward? Are they put together when they are delivered? How else can they get them down wooden stairs to the basement? If you end up moving in a few years, how do you move these beasts with you? Any info/experience is appreciated.

nope they come in 1 piece and it is a pain in the butt to get them downstairs brute strength is required. My weights about 500 lbs and I have decided I am not ever going to move since I don't want to deal with moving it. tom

I have a 6'-7" 270-lb. brother that owns a refrigerator dolly - thanks Mom.

Jog, I would ask to borrow him if and when we ever move, but then I am afraid that I would have to feed him lol. tom

Pumpgun, yeah, that's what I was afraid of. It was bad enough trying to get our large, heavy treadmill from the upstairs to the basement. A large safe is so much heavier still. Guess it may become 'part of the house,' to be shown as a feature to prospective buyers should the time come to move.

Have the dealer deliver and install it. It will be the best $200 you ever spent.

Take out one wall when that safe slips and you've got a bill a whole lot bigger than $200.

our stairs are not designed real well for safes. The first landing is too narrow and it is a sort of a double landing makes it a real bi**h to make the turn to go down the second flight. Selling it with the house may be the way to go I have thought about that as well. tom

I just paid 1300 bucks to get a $3000 safe installed on the second floor. It took six guys, a crawler dolly and three hours to get it up the staircase, and it's a wide staircase with two landings. Beat the crap out of the floors and base boards in the process. And since its an old house, there is an obvious lean to it and the door won't hang open without being tied back. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> It ain't moving again--if anybody buys this house, they're buying a 40 place gunsafe with it.

I'll tell you something interesting. When I did the review of the gun safes for the Magazine I Learned something very interesting about the fire temp rating. The typical or basic minimum rating is based on the use of what looks just like sheet rock that seals the whole inside of the safe and insulates it from the hot fire and temps for 20 minutes to a half hour or in some cases more.



There are companines that use a different type of insulation and will advertise it as a better or more functional way of handling the heat. The only advantage to the alternate or non-sheetrock type that I could find was for second floor use.



You see when a safe is installed on the second floor and the house burns, the safe is so heavy that it falls through the floor. When it lands the sheet rock type of insulation will shatter and no longer protect the contents. The alternate type of insulation is more flexable for shock and more ridgedly attatched to the sides. It will continue to work even after a single floor drop.



If you are not going to a higher floor in the house you gain nothing by paying the additional fire protection cost. Don't get suckered into that! Also the vaults that are lined in carpet have been known to get the carpet to melt inside the safe during a fire. This makes a nasty mess of the guns and stocks when you recover them. The steel guns are fine but the melted carpeting has been known to ruin the stocks and the other valuables in the safe. Most gun safes never see this high fire temp but think about what your safe is lined with too.



Also make certain that it is bolted down regardless of the weight. If you have valuables in there and a thief cannot get them out, he can still make a huge mess of the contents by tipping it over and ruining other things in the house or the contents of the safe.



Another consideration is that the advertising regarding the door and the drill proof locks and blah blah blah is a bit of vault makers hype. Who cares how tough the door and lock are? The sides and top are 1/4" or less steel. Anyone with a die grinder and your 120VAC source can cut a hole in the top or side of that vault in 15 minutes or less and remove everything in it. Everyone seems to focous on the door and the lock but lets be realistic eh! That is not where a guy is gonna waste any time! I promise you I could cut through the top of any residential safe made with a die grinder and a sawzall in a very short time!



The vault is 100% secure from typical snatch and grab theft typical of a household break in. It's 100% secure from your kids and or other family members. Just remember when buying it that these manufactures will go on and on about the various locks and doors explaining why you need these expensive options or features. No expert thief is going to fool with the most basic door lock or combination lock when the top and sides are so easy to cut through! It's just mild plate steel, heck a Acetelene torch will burn through it like butter, and the fire lining will protect the contents more or less, what does he care?

Steve - Yep, just getting my treadmill down two flights of stairs in my house left numerous scars on the walls and staircase. Break out the spackle!

Oh well, I suppose it's just a necessary PITA that we have to deal with to have decent and safe storage for our firearms. I know I have to move beyond my light duty 'gun locker' I currently use.

Thought I would copy and paste my reply from the other safe thread here:

Be aware that not all safes are particularly �safe�.

I bought a 24 gun Heritage safe that cost $1500 � 4 or 6 big steel pins on all four sides of the door, heavy gauge steel, I don�t know the weight but several hundred pounds at least, some Big Brand Name combination lock with a separate key to lock off the combination dial from being turned, separate three spoke handle to open the locking pins, fireproof � a REAL safe, not a sheet metal storage locker. I had it lag bolted to a cement garage floor.

Now we all know that a determined burglar can get into anything with enough time and the right carbide tipped tools, right? And that these safes are there just to make the bad guy not want to spend the two or more hours necessary to bust them open, right?

Well � all it takes is a really angry wife with a garden variety 16 ounce Wal-Mart claw hammer to get into that safe in 10 minutes.

Without going into details of my personal life, suffice it to say that she took out her anger at me on that safe and was able to rip the combination dial off, turn the handle and open the door in what she claimed was no more than 10 minutes using nothing but the hammer and claw. Fortunately the safe was empty at the time, but�

I really don�t know who makes the lockwork for Heritage safes or if there is one or two generic safe makers that supply all of these little safe makers, but Heritage is a widely distributed brand here in Boise and this safe supposedly had all the features of the Brownings and other name brands.

I don�t know what the moral of this story is � except to take your guns with you if you move out of the house (duh!), but don�t put all the faith in the world into your safe unless you know for a fact that it does not have some weak link or chink in the armor.

JJHACK, thanks for the information. Very interesting and educational, especially about the carpet lining used in many safes possibly melting. Ack!

I am focusing on theft protection and any non-authorized access (anybody but me!). Fire protection is next on the list, however I'd rather lose my guns to fire than to have some punk profit off of them or worse, use them in subsequent crimes.

After reading the responses here and remembering what a PITA it was to get my safe onto the second floor of my house, I can only suggest one thing- buy 2 smaller safes so you can get them in and out of your house safely and with as little hassle as possible.
With two smaller safes, which each should weigh about 250-300 lbs, you should be able to get them down the stairs with an appliance dolly and a couple big movers without too much trouble and getting them back out will probably be just as easy. Just remember to bolt them down to the floor with some good solid, construction grade anchors. Assuming you have concrete floors in your basement, I would use a rotohammer and some 3/8" (minimum) wedge anchors- at least 2 in each safe, 4 if possible.
Even a large safe is relatively easy to tip over if not anchored securely. If you can tip it over, you can put it on a dolly and carry it away or work on it from the back, which is the easiest point of entry IMO.

OK OK I'll follow you around and paste mine too!

Sorry about that Jim! Having met both of you I have a vision in my mind I can't shake of her doing that!

Most currently produced safes, although I don't know about heratige. have a pin drop feature which will automaticlly drop the door pins when the combination lock is drilled, the plate behind the lock is drilled, or removal of the dial is attempted. Once the pins drop it cannot be opened without cutting into it according to the safe maker and the service guy who came to reset my combination for me. The service guy said something to the effect of the pin drop feature makes your safe "sacrificial" to the contents. He did say that repair of the lock and opening the safe is possible after the pins drop depending upon the damage. He also mentioned that in one case the side of the safe was cut open for entry to make the repair on a door with the pins locked in place. Then the side was repaired with a larger welded steel plate to cover the entry hole made.

I would guess from this event of yours that the heritage does not have this pin drop anti-tampering feature. A shame really because that makes the door an unrealistic target to get through.

JJ
When they installed my Liberty safe the dealer had a special trailer with a long tailgate. They brought the safe still attached to a pallet down the ramp with a small palletjack. They then unbolted it from the pallet and slid it onto the palletjack. A small piece of steel was placed up to the door jam. 4 guys then pushed it up the makeshift ramp. They then proceded to the back room. When they went to romove it off the palletjack they placed a 4x4 in the center of the safe. The safe was lowered and balanced on the 4x4 and the palletjack removed. A 2x4 was placed at the back edge and the safe was rocked back upon it. The 4x4 was removed. Then the safe was rocked forward and the 2x4 was removed. There it has set for about 6 years.
You can rent rollerjacks and strap them to each side if the floor is level.
Going down stairs inside may be difficult. Maybe a 4 wheeler winch, snatchblock, plywood, straps, and a refrigerator dolly would be useful? Or hire several big guys...
I'm with everyone else. Sell it with the house if you ever move. Good luck.
Bob

Gun fever,

From the other thread. This safe is modular. Look all around this website and see if this wouldn't go down the stairs easier.

http://www.zanottiarmor.com

Westman, interesting product. Will read more about it when time allows. Thanks.

Just a little suggestion for anyone wanting a safe for firearm
storage and not needing the extras or on a limited budget.

Used A.T.M. safes. When banks upgrade A.T.M.'s many times they are just stripped of reuseable/reworkable internal modules and the safes are junked out, the locks can be left for a few bucks extra. They are not pretty but do the job they were designed to do. You may have to look a little to find one tall enough but they are around. I've seen many of them go to the salvage yard, heard of a few guys reclaiming them, a little welding, and some paint or build a nice wood cabinet around tthe outside, and reselling them. I know this sounds like a"Red Green" project, but poo folk got poo ways.
....joken2

About two years ago I decided I needed a safe in my shop as I was getting tired of always getting from and putting things back into my magazine. I ordered a Remington Platinum Elite 35 from a local gun guy. Was told to have help on the date of delivery, etc, etc, etc. Bubba and Earl show up at the scheduled time, first thing out of Bubba's mouth was to keep clear 'cause "we are in the business of heavy moving and don't want no body getting� hurt." Long story short. The "business men" dropped the safe on my entry concrete pad and cracked it stem to stern and all kinds of noise issued from the safe. The door wouldn't open to check it out so back on the truck it went. Hauling company had a local concrete company contact me. The damaged pad was removed and re-poured. Decided to go with a built in strong room instead. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Re: Decided to go with a built in strong room instead.

Now that is an idea worth considering. My basement is unfinished, with several posible areas where I could have something built that would provide gun safe-type security, perhaps. And it wouldn't be so obvious as a safe to crooks, and I could have more fexibility as to design. Good food for thought. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />