Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting 300 Win Mag or 7mm Rem Mag for LR deer

Seems to me, caliber, bullet weight, and even BC is less important, than your shooting ability with a particular rifle. Having a rifle that is consistently accurate, a good LR scope, and the skill to use them will trump bullet weight, BC, caliber etc.

A deer hit well with any of the standard deer calibers (243, 270, 30-06, 308, etc.) should perform nicely if the bullet opens up correctly at the velocity your shooting at.

If you can shoot a .338 as well as a .308 than its just a matter of dealers choice.



Still its fun to opine about the best of anything.

Spoken like someone who's never pulled the trigger on a critter at anything further than tree-stand range. To an extent, what you say is theoreticly true... however, anyone who's ever shot a lot at longer ranges knows that an accurate load with a high BC buller is much easier to shoot (once the range stretches into the 1/4+ mile range) than an equally accurate load with a lesser BC. Once again... WIND is the enemy... everything else is science.

One can as easily get a "rifle that is consistently accurate, a good LR scope, and the skill to use them" with the best bullet, as they can with the worst, so why would you would hamstring your efforts with a sup-par bullet....



Regardless, one would be better taking the rifle they have with a new scope if needed, and actually learn to use it, rather then spending thousands on the greatest round in the world and think they got it......

Then why in the hell do they make long range bullets... if you can shoot them just as well as the "worst" bullets?

I have never been an disciple of energy and pretty much what else you say is pure bovine puckey.

I've killed up to 40 elk in the 50 years of my life including using the then new 708 to know it's not a round I fancy for killing elk at any distance. Using it and seeing it's lack of performance pushed me into the 30 mag camp of which I was never a member till the mid 90's. I also will never go back to the 08 size elk mentality.

You can qoute all the paper stats you want.
I KNOW what a 30 caliber 180 or 200 grain bullet will do to an elk in comparison to a 708 will do.
I don't trust the Amax for angle shots on large mule deer let alone elk. Anybody that does for my money doesn't know what they are talking about. Show me proof, video or witness that you personally have killed elk out to a 1000 yards with the 708
using the Amax. Please show me.





Fact is,

It more like 40 grains of bullet and 20 grains more of powder.

And this bit, "half the barrel life"?

Your smoking wild mountain honey.

And btw, I saw the picture of the buck you killed with an Amax.
Dude, i'm not impressed at all.

I think you reach a point in the ballistic scheme of things where the numbers simply don't tell the whole story. I am a very big fan of "sorta" large capacity 7mm's like the 7 rem mag and the STW-type cartridges, and have shot a fair amount of game with 7mm's from the 7/08 to the 7 rem mag,and they work really well on about anything.I've also used the 300 win mag and the 300 Weatherby(never any faster 30)and my general impression has been that big 30's with bullets of 180-200 grains seem to impact animals harder,penetrate deeply,break up a lot of bone and do a lot of damage.

My general impression has been that they are "more gun" than the 7mm's,especially as distance increases. That said, I feel that fast 7's are very good and I like them because the rifles can be built lighter than big 30's,recoil less,and are flat shooting and very lethal;but I do not think they are as powerful as a big 30.I know the numbers don't bear this out but IMO this is where the numbers and reality part company.

I think much the same thing can be said as you move up the caliber ladder to the 338 and the 375,both great,but again I think 375's are more gun.

None of this means I'm trading my 7mm's for 30's.Just an observation.Both work really well.

What point is that??? ohhh... it's that you have no idea what you're talking about. Your welcome. Eeeking out the 7/08 on the target range is one thing... but it doesn't mean dick when bullets are pointed at furry stuff.

Once again... the paper ballistic expert Idiot Card trups the actuall field experience. It's amazing to me how many internet long range experts there are. I watched no less than 5 guys, just like you Charles, try to hit a 20"x18" gong at 600 yards last night. They talked a lot of ballistic gobbledy gook, two of them even had "Ballistic Reticles"... three of them eventually hit the plate, but they couldn't do it consistently. These guys are pretty successful hunters... and I know they can shoot good groups at 100 yards with their rifles (one 7/08, two '06s, two .270s). But, even knowing their guns, loads, and 'theoretical trajectories' couldn't help them in a moderate breeze. Three 210 Bergers out of my .300 RUM shut them all up post haste... not to mention the dramatic difference in impact.

That is impressive. I love the facial expressions when theoreticals fall short of their beliefs in reality.

I am curious though, without much of a wind what would be the size of your five shot groups at 600?

Shot 3 rounds last night... group was a little over MOA. Not the best shooting I've done, but off a bipod in a little wind... I'll take it. Normaly the rifle shoots about MOA out to about 1/2 mile... the best 5 shot group at 600 was just under 4".

I'm not much of a "group" guy... I take much more stock in hitting what I'm aiming at, especially with the 1st shot. I feel that's the true reason for going to a high BC bullet... when it's a 1-shot... and that shot needs to be on target... there's no room for "worst" bullets or theoretical drop charts.

Here's the group... the 1st round hit center, the 2nd round was high-left (and actually tilted the plate pretty good), I called the 3rd round a little right when the gun went off... I noticed the wind died off just before I hit the switch. The 3rd impact looks a little funny too... the plate was tilted about 40* so it didn't hit the steel very square.

The reason I ask is that I use the group size of about 8" as a reference for my maximum distance for a game shot. If it is windy that would only be about 400 yards for me.

You lost me... Are you just looking for an argument, or does your reading and comprehension need work?

You're post states that someone with a good scope and accurate rifle can easily shoot "the best bullets" and "the worst bullets" with equal accuracy at long range... does it not?

This is quite simply not true... there is a reason for the development of high BC bullets... that reason is accuracy and consistency over a braoder range of conditions. I'm not looking for an argument... I'm ending one.

A 162gr AMAX penetrating the chest of an elk at 1,495fps, wont kill it?

Just out of curiosity, whats the title of this thread???






So the difference between 240grSMK and a 162gr AMAX is 40 grains? And the difference between 75gr of powder and 45gr of powder is 20? Interesting math...... give or take.





Whats the average barrel life of a 300WM? Whats the average barrel life of a 7/08?

So it does, or does not, take a lot more bullet, a lot more powder, and a lot more recoil for a 308 to keep up with a 7mm?





Oh damn! You called me out......



Give or take........

Rrreeeaaddd.... itttt.....reeeaaalll.......slooooowwwwww......thhiiisss.....tiimmmeeee.......

1. Just because the sign says sniper... doesn't make you one!

2. OK... I re-read it... EASILY... BEST and WORST = in ACCURACY... does it... or does it no say that??????

3. No, the .308 will not hang with the 7/08... on PAPER TARGETS... in match type situations...this is true. BUT, the 7/08 will not hang with any of the big 7's or the big 30's... ON GAME ANIMALS... EVER! I don't recall being able to shoot a two sighter shots before a shot on an animal... maybe you can.

4. Have you, or have you not shot a big A-Max or a big Berger at a critter? I'd consider it a much bigger "hamstring" to shoot a bullet that blows around in the wind, than a big/high BC/high SD bullet that's already proven it can handle game up to elk with aplomb. But hey... you're the sniper.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/CharlesArbuckle/Scan0006_0006.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/CharlesArbuckle/Scan0008_0008.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/CharlesArbuckle/Scan0010_0010.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/CharlesArbuckle/Scan0012_0012.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/CharlesArbuckle/TGdaydoe170yds178AMAX.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/CharlesArbuckle/Logansdeer250yrd300t.jpg[/img]


[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/CharlesArbuckle/Ambers8ptexit302yds220grMKTommy.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/CharlesArbuckle/HoleinOne.jpg[/img]


Though to be fair, a couple were with SMK's......



Gotta run, but I'll pen some more later.......

Wow, is that all bergers? I need to know what bullet is doing that huge damage! thats exactly what I want to avoid like the plague!

THanks, Jeff

Sucks to be hamstrung like that... huh?

Since we are on the subject, Nosler's Shooters Pro Shop has 160-gn, 7mm Accubond 2nds for sale right now..

I keep waiting for the 200-gn 30 cals!

-jeff