Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Man on Mars

I think we have bigger fish to fry than to go to Mars. Please don't put a gun to my head to extract my federal taxes from my check to pay for it... please.

I totally understand your position. I on the other hand, am thrilled that we are going to junk that stupid international space station and use the money to do some real exploring, instead of going around the Earth in circles endlessly.

Overall, I believe that the federal government should ONLY focus on the very basic functions it was set up to administer (guaranteeing our liberty) -- not try to solve everybody's social and ecomonic problems for them, like it's been trying to do the past 100 years.

So that is my conflict/contradiction -- I want a robust NASA to explore the universe for mankind and push technological advances we can all benefit from, yet I realize that this is not our government's core mission.

Yet when we look at what our federal government spends our money on in an effort to limit its growth, we really do have bigger fish to fry than NASA, which is less than 1% of all expenditures. Even with the small increases Bush is proposing, it will still be small potatoes.

Ummmmm, not exactly, Bush 1 proposed the same thing, it died aborning when the estimates in 1989 reached 400 to 500 Billion. Current best guess is about 1 trillion. Unless some politician is willing to bite the bullet and fix Social Security and Medicare before the US goes broke, there is no way we can afford it, along with the attendant future cost increase IMO.

DixieFreedom,

Remember, we had a lot of good things come from the space programs, such as jobs, technology, synthetics and etc. This may mean a new era beginning for the U.S.
I know we have a lot of loose ends hanging out but we could push to take care of those while we are still going forward. The U.S. being a (the) world leader cannot stop and say "wait a minute, we must take care of this before going on", we must learn to be able to chew gum and walk at the same time.

While I understand the need to focus internally, I am excited about this program and would like to see it happen.

I well remember Mercury, Gemini and Apollo space programs, what heady days those were. Even as a teenager and a vile war raging in S.E. Asia I was proud to be an American when it was all done and over we, our nation walked away from the exploration of space other than near earth orbit. We as a nation should have demanded that our resources be used to further our knowledge of the cosmos. It seems we lost our way and became the "ME" generation where "I" came first "My" profit and entertainment takes president. Our political leaders changed philosphy from serving the public to serving their own power base and them selves. Am I getting to synical here? Any way development of a manned space program is important to some of us, the real question is it important enough to the americam public to go through with it?



Bullwnkl.

I think the U.S. never stopped having a space race. We just won one round. This is a field of play from which we cannot retire. We sure as heck tried over the past 30 years, but in reality all we can do is take a breather.

Think about what life would be like if the Chinese put a man on the Moon, or if the Japanese or the EU decide to drop the $/pound launch costs by a factor of ten. Then we're back in a 3rd-Down-and-Long situation like we were when Sputnik launched. Ike listened to the wrong guys, and thought he could take his time achieving supremacy in space. Kennedy's plan was not just a good show; it was well-executed drive that put us ahead and rocked the Ruskies. If we had not suceeded then, we would have had a nuclear threat on the moon in 10 years; and it's still a possibility. The players have changed, but the possibility remains.

Our only hope for long-term survival as a country is to maintain that edge. Only if we go to the Moon and make a permanent presence there will we be able to secure it for our own peaceful ends. Ditto for Mars, but that is undoubtedly left for another generation. Complain all you want, but the US has maintained the Pax Americana since the end of WWII. We've done it by systematically crowding out the competition and removing their will to compete. It's a neat feat for a bunch of isolationinsts. Rome had to center their entire culture around world conquest. We do it as a hobby.

This is no different from our push to colonize the West and crowd out the foreign powers in the early 1800's; or our push for Pacific Islands in late 1800's. I won't call it Manifest Destiny, but I will call it The Only Real Game Around; we have played it since the Jamestown colony, and we we'll either keep playing it to win or we will fade into history.

Go G.W. !

Go America.

Onward the wagons!

If It Flies...

I see your point about how Bush 1's plan never made it off the ground due to cost. However, the more recent $1 trillion estimates are pure BS. I've read this many times, and I wonder just who exactly threw that number out? No names are given, just 'experts'. I believe it could be done a lot cheaper. We could have done it in the 60's with that era's technology. There are very specific plans out there right now to do it for much less -- the book "The Case For Mars" is the most well known. I'm not advocating a crash program, and neither is GW. I am totally pschyed that NASA now has a true vision and plan. Let's do this thing -- taking baby steps if we have to. Every year making progress toward unwavering goals.

However, reality rears its ugly head -- the American people have to pay for this, and its up to us to decide NASA's fate, as always. Let the chips fall where they may.

Exploration is a natural urge for Human Beings of all Nations and demographic groups.
It's important that the foremost nation of the world be in the forefront of this.
The money involved is 'peanuts' compared to the zillions that has been spent on various forms of Welfare,and is currently budgeted to be spent in the future,on Welfare.
The President's message wisely did NOT establish a definate timetable,but focused on a Mission,a Goal;something that we all can take pride in.
Frank

Bigger fish to fry???? Like what? "Social" programs, giving money to despots, clemency and social support for criminal immigrants, sex education in schools (I'm in favor of that, actually), kicking third world butt? Shall I go on?

One's reach should always exceed one's grasp. If you spend all your time hand feeding the alligators and making them play nice, you'll never make the high ground at the edge of the swamp - and might lose a hand anyway (but you better feed them enough to keep them off your butt!)

While a certain amount of "maintainence" is required for safety, economic growth, etc., never to venture out of the house, or spend money on anything but "necessities" is ludicrous, dangerous, and ultimately defeating.

Besides, my kid, now at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Prescott, wants to go to Mars. Ever since he was five. His eyes will probably keep him from doing so unless they can be surgically corrected, but I'll bet he makes Mission Control or some other aspect of the program. What should I tell him- sorry, but I want bigger Social Security payments, all my meds paid for, and a luxurious retirement home to rot away in?

If not now, when? Unless we as a species get off this ball of mud, we are doomed - 99% of the species that have ever lived are extinct. That's a majority I'd rather we not join.

Did you ever think of what "we the people" could and probably will get out of it? The last space program changed the world as we knew it. I do not have and maybe it does not exist, but I would like to see a list of the things that were invented for the space program that we use everday now. I think that it would be extensive. miles

Very interesting comments one and all. I used to work in the Pacific where they tested the ICBM's, they would shoot them from Kalifornicationia and they would land in our lagoon. It was down right spooky to see those things incoming at night. In any case it is obvious there is a strategic aspect to NASA and all it does. We have to maintain that aspect of our space program, and also stay a step ahead. I just think that once we spend all this money on Mars all we will have is a box of rocks.

If the R&D and govt money were directed to more practical issues we would have technology advance also, probably better. I perked up at Bush's State of the Union speech, where he talked of a "Manhattan Project" for alternate fuel cars. I believe that could be done, along with a lot of other energy issues.

I just think that going to Mars doesn't move us down the road and it is just a big ego thing for Bush. Bunch of rocks, that is all it will produce.

But with regards to some of the other fish we have to fry:

How about getting the best body armor we can to ALL the troops. How about a battle rifle that is legal for deer hunting in all the states? Better rail system. Subsidize our dying Merchant Marine for national security purposes. Work the bugs out of star wars. Make DC a safe place to stroll around at night. etc etc.

Sounds familiar!
It cost me a fortune just to take the wife and kids out west for the first time, to fish a few mountain streams and see Yellowstone Park. Visited some museums, old mining towns, Mount Rushmore, stuff like that.

Bottom line is .... all we brought back was a box of coffee mugs and T-shirts. What a waste! We could have bought a new kitchen range and an energy efficient refrigerator, instead. I suppose maybe we learned a few things while nosing around out there, but what good will that do any of us? (?)

Considering your experiences in the Pacific, I expect you are right. Anyway, if this space exploration stuff makes Bush happy, I say kill it! More than likely, the big oil companies stand to benefit, somehow. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think it's a waste of money...period <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Its time to go, lets do it. I think were capable of doing it in 10 years, not 30...........10

milespatton- you are correct- the spinoffs in products alone is quite long. I've heard that Teflon (gun coating!) and other anti-stick coatings is one, also advances in adhesives, computing power, plastics, ceramics, metalurgy, etc. Would some of you be hunting with titanium receivers, triggers, scopes, treestands if it weren't for the "useless" space program?



Pure Science: I remember reading a National Geographic article on the invention of the LASER (now laser!). It concluded there was no practical use for the thing, as natural, flawless rubies were just too expensive, and as I recall, all they did was punch a hole in metal with it. Then someone invented synthetic ruby and 5 years after I read the article, I watched big belly-dump earthmovers on my father-in-law's farm out of Miles City leveling a square-mile field, getting just the perfect grade on it- something like an inch per mile, and perfectly flat, so the irrigation water would do its job with the most efficiency - not too fast, not too slow, no humps or bumps to speed or impeed the flow of water to the oter end. All the equipment operator did was drive from end to end! A rod planted in the middle of the field communicated with the computerized controls on the earthmovers to raise/lower, dump or scoop, using a laser beam! That impressed the living heck out of me. 5 lousy years from impractical to every-day! And of course we have ever-expanding uses for it, too numerous to mention- even if I knew them all. How many of you have laser sights on your firearms and laser rangefinders?



What a waste of money, eh?



The problem with pure science however- is you never know what you are going to find, if anything, or if it will be of any practical benefit. But we need to look. Have they come up with any practical uses for "buckyballs" yet? Certainly nothing prosaic enough to reach common public use. Yet, anyway.



Do some of you scout your areas, or new areas pre-season- or do you always have "bigger fish to fry"? (First, catch the fish......)

I know you don't want to hear it but this is something that is needed on our part as a world leader. I know, I know, you and lots of others will say let somebody else foot the bill. Well we could wait and plead, beg and what ever, while some other country takes the shot and does it. At that point we can buy all the nice things that come from the new developments made to put them on Mars and you as well as the others know we would PAY DEAR for them! Not to mention we could be sitting under the "Big Gun" with another country on Mars or our Moon. IMHO I think they would be the country that called all the shots for the WHOLE WORLD from then on. I wouldn't want to see this nor would anyone else. As well I wouldn't want the U.S. to be the one and try the same. We have to do it now or later but be the first and only!

I guess if you don't want to have the taxes removed from your pay to support such things, you have a couple of options....... ?? Living in another country sucks, but in another sence quitting your job and living on welfare paid by taxes sucks too. Above and beyond though you have a right to complain about such. Hey, run for office and win then you can vote againist or veto these bills. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

DF, "I think we have bigger fish to fry than to go to Mars." This time around I agree completely. Conditions in the U.S. wer a lot different when we put a man on the moon. Times have changed. Lets get our own country in order then go on with space exploration. And all those spin off's, think about spending on direct research rather than counting the luck of a spin off application. Anyone worried about cancer? Worried about loosing your medical insurance in the next round of contracts? I am. A balanced US budget? A useful education for the up and coming blue collar work force (your kids and mine)? ..... we're living in a glass house and (foreign) people are throwing rocks.

Lets take a small moment and get a handle on our lives here at home then go to Mars.

And the space station and its support system(space shuttle), lets put some money in this one. Its actually producing results, an actual platform where both pure and applied sciences can mingle. Throught the space station, applied scientists are producing new alloys and new crystal structures only possible in a micro gravity climate.


I'm all for Mars, but lets take a momment and put our own house in order first.

For those interested- here's a list of on going Space Station Research/experiments. Its an eye opener. I didn't count them, but there are probably several hundred listed.

Talk about the fruits of direct research versus "spin off",

I got my fingers crossed, hope .



http://www.scipoc.msfc.nasa.gov/factchron.html



-Dan