Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting small cartridges for deer

Not looking to reignite our perpetual ".223 for deer" discussion, but how about experience anybody's had with real small cartridges for deer? I play around a lot with my .30 carbine and .25-20. I have no intention of hunting deer with them but I'm aware people have. Who's had some experience with these or other cartridges in that class?

I shot a doe last year with a .223 64gr power point bullet.One shot at 10yds into the neck,no trailing.Best killing shot i've ever made.

No experience with the 25/20 but I'd stay away from the 30 carbine. Yes, you can kill a deer with one but the problem is even with softpoints it is hard to get enough speed to make a bullet expand beyond pistol distances. The carbine just doesn't have enough oomph (technical term ) to make for any sort of shock or bullet expansion unless you are in stabbing distance.

I did kill a couple with the carbine before I gave up on it and I know of several more that were shot. Took multiple hits to do the job.

BCR

The 250 Savage is about the perfect deer cartridge for what your asking. We literally fight over the two we have in our camp.

Many years ago, my work involved collecting white-tailed deer in Texas and Kansas for scientific studies. Virtually all of the more than 1,300 animals were taken with a .222 Rem Mag--the ballistic twin of the .223. Late in that period, I finally acquired a .22-250 and liked it better, as the flatter trajectory enabled me and my collaborators to take deer another 75-100 yards farther out. During this period, we lost only one deer: a big Kansas doe that one of my graduate students hit in the cartilage at the base of the ear. As I walked up to get a blood sample, the deer regained consciousness and managed to run away despite my efforts tackle her and hold her down.

Since completing those projects, I have never shot another deer with a .22 caliber rifle. I have taken many deer, and friends and family have taken many more, with catridges ranging from the 6mms up to various .30 calibers. The smallest thing that I use on deer anymore are a couple of .25s: a .257AI and a .25-35 carbine.

I know lots of folks in Texas who use .22 centerfires and 6mms to successfully harvest deer. However, the vast majority of those are shot with a rest from blinds, (usually around a feeder) at relatively short distances. Since we don't hunt that way, the .25s have become our minimum, and there are more 7mms than anything else. (I am not being judgemental, it just doesn't work that way in the places that we hunt.)

My ethics dictate that I use a rifle/cartridge combination that will put the animal down immediately at the distances and under that circumstances in which I shoot.

I would like to hear if anyone has had any experinces with the 6.8 SPC on Deer. I just resently got an AR, and the gears are turning in my head, about a 6.8 upper.

277 diameter bullets and deer is a known quantity, if a 270 will flame one at 400 yards, the 6.8 shouldn't have a problem at 150...

Deer are not hard to kill. You can kill them with any cartridge within an appropriate range for the cartridge.
But why would you limit yourself to cartridges that are only good for head shots and/or shots at less than 100 yards?
The smallest cartridge I use is a .257 Roberts but a .250 Savage is good too.

Inside about 150 yards, the ole toidy toidy with the 170 grain flatnose works pretty good on deer. One step down is the old 25-35 that is a POS for deer killing. Somewhere around there is the practical minimum for reliable kills with lung shots.

Wayne

I'd not want to be a deer if'n I had a 25/35 in my hands.

And I'd not want to see you, if'n you were a deer with a 25/35 in your hands...

I've found several volunteers to play catch with while using a 17 Rem, it aint never worked...

Dober

How dare you Dober...grin...

I must have used too much gun last year on some sausage candidates via .204 Ruger...

First I will say that there is a big difference between what "will work" to take a deer and what "should" be used. A deer just isn't that hard to kill if the bullet is properly placed....almost anything will work, including in at least one case I personally know of, the use of a .17 caliber air rifle.

However, the "proper" weapon to be used for a dedicated deer rifle should be able to get the job done even when conditions aren't perfect and a shot is slightly misplaced. Niether the .30 Carbine nor the .25/20 fit that description. Both are underpowered and cannot be depended on except with a near "perfect" shot. Even with a good shot the blood trail left when a deer runs (and they will likely run) can be almost nonexistant.

After saying that......the original question was about experience using those rounds. I have taken deer and hogs with both the .30 Carbine and the .25/20.

I took one hog and 4 or 5 deer with the Carbine many years ago (or as my daughters say.....back when dinosaurs ruled the earth). This was in my younger and dumber days before I understood the limitations of the round.....after all it was a .30 caliber, and so was the .30-06. How much difference could there be? I soon learned that this rifle was just too weak for use as a full-time deer rifle. Never lost an animal, but this was more due to the use of dogs to trail wounded deer, rather than great performance.....they DID run and they DIDN'T always bleed!!

As to the .25/20, I picked up a beautiful Savage 23 several years ago and it soon became my favorite "walking around" gun during the off-season. I intended it as a small game rifle for rabbits, squirrels and varmits.....not bigger animals. However, the local hogs soon began commiting suicide....obviously thinking the little .25/20 would never hurt them. They were wrong. I was careful to take only close range, broadside shots at smaller hogs (100# and less) and took a half-dozen or so without a problem.

Then I got to thinking about using the little rifle on deer. Yes, I admit it was a pure "stunt" and not really appropriate, but then I don't always do the "smart" thing. Knowing the limits of the .25/20, I only took shots at close range (under 50 yards) and only side-on lung shots.......and never when darkness was a threat or in rainy weather as I assumed a diffecult tracking job might be required. However, the two deer I took with the .25/20 were "perfect" as one dropped at the shot and the other ran just 25 yards before stopping and falling over after a few minutes.

I admit I was lucky....and will likely not use such a small rifle again for deer. At least not deliberately. The .25/20 and .30 Carbine are just too marginal for such use, but if I happen to have one of these in my hands when a deer or hog presents a "perfect" opportunity, I have no doubt I can make the kill. The "secret" is accepting the limits of the cartridge and realize that you may have to pass up more shots than you take due to those limits.

While I wouldn't personally feel comfortable with the .30 carbine as my deer rifle, one of the finest (perhaps THE finest) woodsmen I know has been using his to put up venison year after year. My hunch is that he hunts VERY close and takes only "sure thing" shots. Guess what I'm suggesting is another rendition of "it ain't the arrow, it's the Indian".

Then again, I've heard many, many stories from traditional "Yoopers" who put deer after deer in the freezer with a .22 LR...maybe even some of them during daylight.

cra.,

My job some years ago required me killing deer with whatever was at hand. Like everyone else has said, deer aren't hard to kill... given the right shot. You certainly don't need a 300 mag or $2.00 bullets.

But, if you limit youself to a small cartridge, the shot must be exact.

That statement sums-up the topic perfectly.

-

Everything's relative, I guess.

The pointed sticks I've been using make the small calibers feel like cheating...

IME, exact shot placement is the ticket with every cartridge, there are just more places to put it with a bigger cartridge and still get it to the vitals; however, with today's bullets, I'm not too scared to break bone or rake a little with a small cartridge when running a TSX or Partition.

DJ

I would never recommend it but my Grandfather used a 25-20 to pot a moose once. He was very familiar with the rifle as he used it to feed his family durring the "Dirty Thirties".

The 250 Savage with a 120 Speer Hot Core is my favorite Whitetail Medicine.