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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
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The Tundra is assembled in the USA,and has as many USA made parts as any other pickup. Not true. The Toyota Tundra has 75% U.S./Canada parts content. My GMC Sierra is 85% U.S./Canada parts content and that's ignoring design, administration, profit and shareholder control all of which are also Japanese.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
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Where does the profit go????? The American Workers are paid,the American parts suppliers are paid,the Utilities and maintenance for the facilities are paid to American companies,and the rest goes to Toyota. Now lets look at GM.A good many of their trucks are made in Canada,so wages go to Canadian workers,Maintenance and Utilities to Canadian companies,and the profit to GM Canada. Then we have the Chevy Avalanche which is made in Mexico.Wages go to Mexican workers,maintenance and utilities are paid to Mexican companies,and the profits go to GM. Then we have Dodge who also manufactures trucks in Mexico,pays wages to Mexicans,and maintenance and utilities to Mexicans. The profits in many cases go to wealthy shareholders,not to the average person,and I could care less whose wealthy people get the profits if local people make money as well. We have GM and Ford who are closing plants or moving them outside of the USA and Canada,and laying off workers.We also have Toyota who is building more plants in the USA and is employing more local workers.Which benefits the average American more? Again, you are twisting facts. Only 1 of the 5 GM full size truck plants is in Canada and that plant is the one being closed. Toyota on the other hand also builds part of their trucks in Mexico, which you neglected to mention while making sure to mention the niche vehicle Avalanche was assembled in Mexico. The entire Tacoma bed assembly is built in Mexico. Toyota is also consolidating their Tundra plants since they are selling like the dog crap they resemble. Toyota only sold 75K Tundras for the first 6 months of this year. Ford sold 164K F-150's and GM sold 148K Silverados/Sierra through same period. Funny how the market rewards Toyota cars for good quality through high sales, but Toyota can't give away Tundras. Toyota made $14.9 BILLION last year, a large chunk of that from U.S. sales. The simpleton view is to say Toyota pays it's smattering of U.S. workers and not care about profits. The fact is Toyota U.S. workers salaries aren't a blip against the profits they are taking out of the U.S.
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
VA, Toyota all the way! At 36,000 miles I have yet to change a LIGHT BULB in my '06 Tundra. Of course my bumper-to-bumper warranty just ran out yesterday, so... that means all hell is about to break loose. For the uses you describe, a Tundra is perfection. They are incredibly smooth and comfortable to drive. I've banged mine around a bit off-road and it does fine; it's not a Wrangler, but then what is? And most guys are not going to truly push a brand new $30k truck hard offroad anyway as it really wears them out prematurely, loosens things up, etc. At any rate when I say I have offroaded my Tundra "a bit" you can take that info from someone who has OWNED a Wrangler and is not afraid of hearing things under the rig banging and scraping. I don't mean that it's just been on dirt roads. Plus even my '06 frikkin hauls ASS, and I'm told the newer ones are faster still. I think if you go drive the 3 of them, the choice will be clear... Are you thinking new or used?
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,017
Campfire Tracker
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Toyota is also consolidating their Tundra plants since they are selling like the dog crap they resemble. Toyota only sold 75K Tundras for the first 6 months of this year. Ford sold 164K F-150's and GM sold 148K Silverados/Sierra through same period.
Funny how the market rewards Toyota cars for good quality through high sales, but Toyota can't give away Tundras. http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/otf0999.htmlTop 10 Pickups Sales Figures Year-to-Date (YTD) Aug 2008
Ford F-Series 359,971 -25.2% YTD August 2008: 40,429 August 2007: 69,220
Chevrolet Silverado 320,074 -24.8% YTD August 2008: 55,765 August 2007: 67,486
Dodge Ram 175,246 -29.0% YTD August 2008: 24,974 August 2007: 32,309
GMC Sierra 115,067 -17.1% YTD August 2008: 20,297 August 2007: 23,574
Toyota Tacoma 108,137 -11.4% YTD August 2008: 12,407 August 2007: 15,094
Toyota Tundra 107,330 -14.5% YTD August 2008: 17,401 August 2007: 18,919
All truck sales are indeed down in 2008.However a quick look at the numbers shows that Fords F series sales dropped 25.2% compared to last year.Silverado sales are down 24.8%,Ram sales are down 29%,and Sierra sales are down 17.1% Yet Tundra sales are only down 14.5% and Tacoma sales are down 11.4%.It sure looks like Ford ,GM and Dodge are being hit far worse than Toyota as far as truck sales are concerned.Toyota is cutting back on manufacturing numbers,but they aren't closing plants like GM and Ford.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
If your read it, you would have comprehended that it was a temporary effect: GM's axle strike earlier this year had an unintended consequence - as Chevy shifted truck production to Mexico, they decreased their truck's domestic content enough to make the Tundra more American. The Ram and the Silverado are now about 25% made in Mexico (according to their federally mandated domestic content stickers).
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,765
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,765 |
I drive an F-150, company truck, ex cab, 5.4 triton. Get's 14.3 MPG on the highway. The best I ever got was 14.8. I'm a chey guY, my Z-71 gets 18.5 highway.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
Toyota is also consolidating their Tundra plants since they are selling like the dog crap they resemble. Toyota only sold 75K Tundras for the first 6 months of this year. Ford sold 164K F-150's and GM sold 148K Silverados/Sierra through same period.
Funny how the market rewards Toyota cars for good quality through high sales, but Toyota can't give away Tundras. http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/otf0999.htmlTop 10 Pickups Sales Figures Year-to-Date (YTD) Aug 2008
Ford F-Series 359,971 -25.2% YTD August 2008: 40,429 August 2007: 69,220
Chevrolet Silverado 320,074 -24.8% YTD August 2008: 55,765 August 2007: 67,486
Dodge Ram 175,246 -29.0% YTD August 2008: 24,974 August 2007: 32,309
GMC Sierra 115,067 -17.1% YTD August 2008: 20,297 August 2007: 23,574
Toyota Tacoma 108,137 -11.4% YTD August 2008: 12,407 August 2007: 15,094
Toyota Tundra 107,330 -14.5% YTD August 2008: 17,401 August 2007: 18,919
All truck sales are indeed down in 2008.However a quick look at the numbers shows that Fords F series sales dropped 25.2% compared to last year.Silverado sales are down 24.8%,Ram sales are down 29%,and Sierra sales are down 17.1% Yet Tundra sales are only down 14.5% and Tacoma sales are down 11.4%.It sure looks like Ford ,GM and Dodge are being hit far worse than Toyota as far as truck sales are concerned.Toyota is cutting back on manufacturing numbers,but they aren't closing plants like GM and Ford. When you sell ten times more full size trucks than Toyota, yes, a market unfriendly to full size trucks is going to hit the market leaders harder. Toyota just had a model change. F-150 hasn't had one in a few years, that will effect % sales decreases as well. The GMC Sierra which lags behind Toyota in sales floor space still outsells the Tundra and the Sierra has been the fullsize sales laggard for a century. Considering Toyota's market dominance, the Tundra should sell a lot more than it does. Quality hasn't crossed over from Toyota cars to it's trucks and the styling is abysmal, thus they can't give them away.
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Posts: 4,017
Campfire Tracker
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When you sell ten times more full size trucks than Toyota, yes, a market unfriendly to full size trucks is going to hit the market leaders harder. Toyota just had a model change. F-150 hasn't had one in a few years, that will effect % sales decreases as well. Obviously if you sell more trucks,a market slowdown will result in a greater reduction as to the number of trucks selling,but it should effect the entire market by a similar percentage.The percentage numbers posted prove that this isn't the case. Further if you take the total number of trucks sold this year compared to the number sold by the same time last year,and compare the number sold by Toyota,Toyota has actually increased their percentage share of the sales. As well,the 2007 Tundra was the first true full sized pickup ever offered by Toyota,so they have only been selling a true full sized truck for about 1-1/2 years.Look at the head start that the other companies had in building a client base.Toyota is certainly not going to challenge the other companies as far as total truck sales are concerned for at least several years.but the fact is that their market share percentage is increasing while the opposite is true for GM,Ford and Dodge.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 150
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 150 |
Buy American! Toyota's may be built here but they are not an American Co. Besides the Tundra is for girls. It could never tow my fiver.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,017
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Besides the Tundra is for girls. It could never tow my fiver. Then no other 1/2 ton will either.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
I would dearly love to own a Toyota, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I'll admit I'm overly patriotic, but the Bataan Death March notwithstanding here's another tidbit: I June of 1942, we decicively defefeated the japanese fleet at Midway. Both sides paid a very high price in ships, planes and men. There were four American Fliers fished out of the water by the jap navy. The historical record shows that after "severe" interrogation, they were tied to water-filled drums and thrown overboard...while still alive. I guess were I Jewish, I wouldn't buy German either...jorge
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,017
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2003
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I would dearly love to own a Toyota, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I'll admit I'm overly patriotic, but the Bataan Death March notwithstanding here's another tidbit: I June of 1942, we decicively defefeated the japanese fleet at Midway. Both sides paid a very high price in ships, planes and men. There were four American Fliers fished out of the water by the jap navy. The historical record shows that after "severe" interrogation, they were tied to water-filled drums and thrown overboard...while still alive. I guess were I Jewish, I wouldn't buy German either...jorge You must have a tough time avoiding products marketed by Japanese companies or containing Japanese parts.Most of our electronics are either made by Japanese companies or contain Japanese parts.The computer that you are using to post here most likely contains parts marketed by a Japanese company.Many Firearms including Browning,and Weatherby vanguards are built in Japan.Leupold scopes do use some Japanese lenses.Most Cameras are made in Japan or contain Japanese lenses or other parts.Even some vehicles made by North American owned companies come with Bridgestone tires,and other Japanese parts.Life is far too short to carry 50 year old grudges against people of whom most are dead.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
When you sell ten times more full size trucks than Toyota, yes, a market unfriendly to full size trucks is going to hit the market leaders harder. Toyota just had a model change. F-150 hasn't had one in a few years, that will effect % sales decreases as well. Obviously if you sell more trucks,a market slowdown will result in a greater reduction as to the number of trucks selling, but it should effect the entire market by a similar percentage.The percentage numbers posted prove that this isn't the case. Further if you take the total number of trucks sold this year compared to the number sold by the same time last year,and compare the number sold by Toyota,Toyota has actually increased their percentage share of the sales. As well, the 2007 Tundra was the first true full sized pickup ever offered by Toyota,so they have only been selling a true full sized truck for about 1-1/2 years.Look at the head start that the other companies had in building a client base.Toyota is certainly not going to challenge the other companies as far as total truck sales are concerned for at least several years.but the fact is that their market share percentage is increasing while the opposite is true for GM,Ford and Dodge. No it shouldn't, notice I mentioned that the F-150 which had the largest decrease, also had the most stale design. Toyota which had the newest design, had the lower decrease in sales % wise. It is a factor and has been as long as truck sales have been compared. No, that is factually incorrect, Toyota has not only been making full size trucks for 1.5 years. Yes, the T-100 was a full size body on a modified small truck frame BUT the Tundra has been around since 2000. I seriously looked at a 2000 as I liked the styling pre 2007. They were essentially a carbon copy size and styling wise of the 1997-2004 F-150. How you can claim they were not a full size truck is beyond me.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
You are absolutely correct in everything you say. Those companies you cited do make lots of stuff over there and in most cases I don't have a choice. It's just a principled decision on my part and it's a free country and I have no issues if folks want to buy what they want. I just want to keep the capital here if I can. Incidentally, my Bridgestones say MADE IN USA. jorge
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,017
Campfire Tracker
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Posts: 4,017 |
Toyota which had the newest design, had the lower decrease in sales % wise. It is a factor and has been as long as truck sales have been compared. The 2007 Tundra was a new design,but so was the 2007 Sierra/Silverado.So much for that theory. No, that is factually incorrect, Toyota has not only been making full size trucks for 1.5 years. Yes, the T-100 was a full size body on a modified small truck frame BUT the Tundra has been around since 2000. I seriously looked at a 2000 as I liked the styling pre 2007. They were essentially a carbon copy size and styling wise of the 1997-2004 F-150. How you can claim they were not a full size truck is beyond me. The t-100 and 2000 to 2006 Tundras were marketed as full sized trucks,but you only need to get into the interior to see that they aren't nearly as big as any real full size trucks.Even the boxes have lower sides.Ride in the back of a 2000 Tundra extended cab for a few hours then do the same in a 2000 f-150 extended cab and then tell me that they are the same size. The only reason that I bought my 2004 GM was because the 2004 Tundra was too small for my uses.By comparison ,my 2007 Tundra is huge.
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Posts: 4,017
Campfire Tracker
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Incidentally, my Bridgestones say MADE IN USA. jorge So does my Tundra,but like Toyota,Bridgestone is a Japanese based company. http://www.bridgestone.co.jp/english/info/history/
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
Bridgestone is owned by Firestone or is it the other way around? Oh and in 2000 when I bought my Silverado, the Tundra 4X4 didn't even have a locking differential option and was grossly underpowered. Great trucks but not for me. jorge
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
Buy American! Toyota's may be built here but they are not an American Co. Besides the Tundra is for girls. It could never tow my fiver. RAT, read VA's description of what he wants to do... this isn't about a heavy-duty tow rig, not at all...
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
Toyota which had the newest design, had the lower decrease in sales % wise. It is a factor and has been as long as truck sales have been compared. The 2007 Tundra was a new design,but so was the 2007 Sierra/Silverado.So much for that theory. No, that is factually incorrect, Toyota has not only been making full size trucks for 1.5 years. Yes, the T-100 was a full size body on a modified small truck frame BUT the Tundra has been around since 2000. I seriously looked at a 2000 as I liked the styling pre 2007. They were essentially a carbon copy size and styling wise of the 1997-2004 F-150. How you can claim they were not a full size truck is beyond me. The t-100 and 2000 to 2006 Tundras were marketed as full sized trucks,but you only need to get into the interior to see that they aren't nearly as big as any real full size trucks.Even the boxes have lower sides.Ride in the back of a 2000 Tundra extended cab for a few hours then do the same in a 2000 f-150 extended cab and then tell me that they are the same size. The only reason that I bought my 2004 GM was because the 2004 Tundra was too small for my uses.By comparison ,my 2007 Tundra is huge. I realize you're Canadian but we are supposedly sharing the same language " A factor" is just that. I didn't say it was the only factor. I was pointing out the extremes of Ford and Toyota on % decrease. Chevrolet and GMC severely cut production this year and had a strike early in the year. That is also " A factor" GM idled 4 truck plants this year from that strike. Hell I was checking inventory a few weeks ago with this employee pricing going on and there wasn't a single ext cab SLT Sierra 4x4 to be found within a 100 miles of Nashville. You can't sell what you don't have. I specifically said the T-100 was not really a full size truck. No matter how much room was in the ext cab of a 2000 Tundra, it was still a full size truck. It is misleading to claim that they have only been selling full size trucks for 1.5 years just because you don't think they were proportioned properly. They were still a bonafide full size truck entry.
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