Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting 850yd elk gun...thinking 300-375 Ruger?

I was gone for a day and a half scouting, I come back and see that this thread has gone to 58 replies, if most of you had taken the time to read page 1 instead of reading the last page and trying to out-do the last poster you might eventually learn something.
B

They are very significant, at least to me. This could be because I have a poorly chosen long-range shooting spot... but various up and downdrafts, and winds, move the POI around a BUNCH at 800 yards from day to day.

Yep it forces addition and subtraction more than normal, funny thing is we picked a rock off to the side about 100 yards or so, I know at least 50 yards, and it ended up being a softball size rock, I made the mistake of actually hitting it, and the whop it made must have done it, I'd have been better off missing, correcting and shooting as the dirt impact would have been much quieter...

Jeff

I think the two year project idea is a great one. Build it and get to know it, practice, build the skills and know when to NOT shoot based on poor conditions.

I always felt my rangefinder was not just for how far but to help me realize too far.

As for a long range elk rifle: My shooting buddy consulted Dan Lilja last year and built this package:
338 RUM,
27" #7 SS Lilja
Rem 700 SS action
A-5 Mcswirley
Nightforce 5.5-15 x 50, Nightforce picatinny rail and rings

It shoots 300 gr sierra matchkings at 2850. It weighs around 12 lbs.

Before the naysayers talk about his bullet choice, do a search of others that have used this bullet on elk. Darryl Cassel has used it successfully.

http://www.precisionlongrangehunter.com/articles_hunting.htm

Dan Lilja mentions it in his article on long range hunting:

"I've talked to quite a few hunters that have used the 300 grain Sierra .338 bullet at long-range on game like elk, deer and bears. They are reporting very good killing qualities from this bullet. The down-range energy level is tremendous. "

"We now have the excellent 300 grain Sierra Match Kings for this caliber too. The ballistic coefficient of this bullet is close to .800, the highest of any bullet available for any caliber not including the big 50's. This big Sierra is a true match quality bullet capable of outstanding accuracy at long-range. And from my experience and that of other long-range hunting friends, it works well on game too."

Here is the link for the entire article on long range shooting found at Lilja's site. Thanks to Mr. Lilja.
http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/longrange_shooting/shooting_hunting.htm

Good shooting Jeff!!!

There's quite the thread going on this, over on the Hunters Campfire forum.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2421159/page/0/fpart/1

Thanks for bringing that thread over Jeff O. I read through it and was really impressed by the vast majority that want to get close in and "hunt". I was out this morning w/ my bow and on the drive to the trailhead I had a small group of cows cross the road in front of me. I never did see if there was a bull w/ them, as it was still dark and incredibly thick. One of the cows crossed the road w/ an obvious limp. Many things could have caused it, but it hit me...I don't want to be the cause of it. I've had incredibly good fortune growing up in Montana my whole life, hunting with my dad since I was 6, and taking up a rifle of my own when I was 12. I'm now 31 and have hunted every year. To this date, I've been very fortunate/lucky to not have one lost animal to my name. Although I know there is equipment and people that can make incredibly long shots possible, I determined that my self imposed limit will remain at 500yds (considering I'm not carrying my 06..it moves into 350yd then). I've shot antelope at 500+yds in my youth, and never thought much of it. I shot a lot, had what I thought was a good rangefinding scope, and luckily pulled the shots off w/o incident. I'm a HUGE advocate for ethical, fair-chase hunting, and don't want to ever be considered a slob. I'm sorry if I raised hackles and such..that was never my intent w/ this post. I love rifles and hunting, and sometimes the lines get a little blurred between extreme performance and hunting. Thanks for everyone's thoughts and opinions.
Also, thanks for posting that Lilja link. I've read every article on his page numerous times and still get amazed at his technical knowledge. I grew up less than 10miles from his shop and have always regarded him as one of the most knowledgable men in the business. I have a long time friend who works for him, and he has nothing but good things to say about him and his business. Needless to say, Im a big Lilja fan. In fact, I'm wearing one of his camo hats as I type...a b-day present from that friend. Thanks again for the thoughts/opinions/knowledge.
Q

You know, Q, I do think you have a nearly ideal scenario in front of you here. You can do as someone suggested.. pour a concrete bench, set targets up in that meadow, and just dial that sucker IN.

Long range hunting is very controversial, as evidenced by that thread. Like the guy that said that long range hunters are like people into child porn and have to hide over here in their own little club. Total BS.

I've argued both sides of the debate (not uncommon for me <g>). I'm not a long range hunter by any stretch. But, I've worked hard to extend my personal range in the last year to a number that gets into hackle-raising territory for some people, so I at least have an inkling of how frustrating it is for a dedicated, skilled, long range hunter/shooter who has worked hard for YEARS, bought and sorted out the finest equipment, and basically put in the time... to hear themselves being called, essentially, slob hunters.

Good luck to you!

As the old saying goes: "If you can do it, it aint bragging." Now is it hunting? Damed if I know, because I don't know at what distance it becomes shooting and not hunting.

I've shot deer at 30yards that did not have a clue I was there. What if it was 500yd and didn't have a clue? What is the difference? I know what works for me. (And it is closer than 500yd on big game.)

I also know why I hunt. I have to breathe, eat, love, etc for much the same reason. I have to kill to arrive there, but killing is not one of the reasons. It just is one of the constant parts of the equation.

Best not to argue things that have multiple or uncertain answers. Nothing but frustration.

Battue

Addition: Maybe if we can get the Shaman to shake his rattle over this thread the smoke and mirrors will depart.

One thing for sure, learning LR shooting makes a MUCH better up close shooter than one would ever otherwise be. IMHO.

Jeff

Azshooter,
I agree with most of your post, the 300gr SMK is an awesome hunting and target bullet. it is exactly the bullet I was speaking of on page 1, I have taken moose with it out to 1000yds,Elk with it out to past 1200yds and rock chucks with it past 2100yds.
The only problem I have with your post is 2850fps with a 338RUM, it might happen with a 338Edge or 338Lapua Imp. a 338RUM wont shoot them that fast unless you are using a shooters chrony or a blow-up is nigh at hand.
B

I guess to add my two cents on this. I've been in the long range thing for a few years now and I shoot a .300 win mag with 200gr. Accubonds at 2990-3020fps.

With that cartridge I've learned that the ceiling for effectiveness and accuracy most of the time is 800yards. Past that it always takes a few more minutes of calculations and reholding the shot to make it.

My opinion: If you want to shoot Long Range style on elk effectively past 800yards you have to play with the big boys. Usually the combo includes 90+ grains of powder as a minimum charge and a slug that weighs 240gr.'s or bigger with B.C. that .500 or larger. Some where in there, but larger is almost always better when you're crossing the canyon.

And that's what I'm going to do next year.

AMEN.

BMT

NOBODY SHOULD SHOT THAT FAR YOU OWE IT TO THE ANIMAL,AT THAT RANGE ANYTHING CAN GO WRONG.THE BULLIT, YOU COULD HIT BAD,AND BRAGGING ABOUT IT MEANS EVERY ONE WILL TRY IT. AND ALL YOU AND EVERY ONE ELSE THAT TRYS IT IS JUST GOING TO MAKE ALL HUNTERS AND GUN OWNERS LOOK BAD TO ALL THE ANTI GUN AND HUNTING GROUPS.

No need to shout!

And welcome to the Fire and do you shoot at long range and practice at long range?

Dober

Great tag line Dober! I can relate... being somewhat of a leaper myself...

Bill, welcome to the 'fire.

I too am interested in your experience to justify you opinion.

I don't really have an iron in this fire but.....

There are just as many 100 yard shots that shouldn't be taken as there are 500 yard shots. The distance of the shooter from the game in it's self doesn't mean much. Just two days ago I was set up on an antelope out in the public walk-in area that's on my way to work. The goat was 568 yards from me (rifle is zeroed at 500 yards), I was in the bi-pod prone in a dead calm, dope on the rifle deciding wether or not to shoot this goat and if it was big enough to warrant the drag out.

When some folks slid around the hill down range of me. I ejected the round and watched them though my bino's when they spotted the goat which couldn't have been more that two hundred yards from them. Seven shots and three hits later the goat quit moving.

I'm a tactical long range shooter with active duty experience and also a NG guest instructor for the same. I've shot quite a little bit at distance. I know many folks that can dump a 600 yard antelope with greater speed and acuracy than many can at 200 yards. Just the same I've seen many "sportsman" that can't hit a paper plate at half the distance they bang away at game.

Now concerning this thread about, what rifle/scope do ya need for 850 yard elk? Well it's one of those deals that if you have to ask you ain't ready to do it yet.

You don't go from here to there with internet advice.

You work up to it in the field at actual distances during the off season. Once you get to the point you can murder paper plates from the muzzle to 500 yards from field positions, which can be done handily with the average hunting rifle and a sutiable optic. You switch up to prairie dogs and coyotes for real time practice.

After you get that under control you may be ready for some 300 to 400 yard deer/antelope killing.

When you get a handle on that you won't need to ask blanket questions of strangers about what you need, you will know what you need by the way of honest experience.

I don't talk with many about my antelope antics because 75% of hunter types aren't nearly the rifleman they ought to be. It's like talking to a virgin about how to handle a hot, experienced 38 year old woman whoose ready to race. They are interested and have opinions but that's as far as it goes.

I think at times alot of those that dog on a little long range hunting are projecting thier own lack of experience to the topic. They seem to forget that there are pleny of varmint hunters exploding prairie dogs and coyotes at ridiculous ranges with thier trusty 6.5X.284's etc. all summer by the dozens and when it comes time to bust a goat it looks like a wooly mammouth at 500 yards and is a relativly easy shot.

I personaly believe there ought to be some type of markmanship proficiancy standard when you take hunters saftey. Too many so-called "sportsman" just can't shoot.

Cheer's Den

Welcome to the campfire Den!
Nice post.
Live in the same town as you.
Enjoy, the LR shooting as well, but I am an odd-duck in that, I use specialty handguns instead of rifles.

welcome Den, awesome post, wish I was that good with words.
RR