Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Hungry family. Should I shoot a hippo or a mouse?

From:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7618023.stm


A complete ban on hunting wild animals for their meat would be a disaster for people living in Central Africa, researchers say.

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The authors argue that only by giving rights to local hunters to decide on what they want to hunt will they be encouraged to adopt sustainable practices - such as hunting for fast reproducing species like rodents instead of larger mammals.


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To allow the indigenous of Africa hunt game is a recipe for disaster, take a look at how they are decimating the game herds in the Northern reaches of Africa and now the effect this is having in Zimbabwe...Regardless of what some people would like to believe these folks are not conservationist, they will kill game for no particular reason and they will only eat a portion of what they shoot..They live from one day to the next without any thought to the future, thats just the way it is, like it or not fir all indigenous tribal people...The American Indian ran thousands of buffalo over bluffs and could only use a small portion of the meat, the cave dwellers ran herds of Mastadon over bluffs and couldn't use but one...Todays African snares many animals and then forgets to check his traps for a week or two...Such is the case.

hungry people will kill an animal if they are able. no law will stop that.

the only hope for game in Africa is sport hunting which places value on the animals which allows indigenous peoples to buy food with the income from sport hunting.

Another way.

Let an African kill an antelope and he will eat for a day.

Convince him to let an American fly halfway round the world to pay and kill it, while leaving all the good parts (ie meat) and he will eat for the rest of his life AND have cash for bling.

Ok so there I am a lily white guy sitting in, say, Durangatang, Colorado working as a sheet changer for the local fu-fu ski resort�Durangatang Mountain�and not making enough to feed and house my family. There are simply no other jobs to be had and no schools to gain skills in order to move somewhere that there are jobs. Me and my friends (also white guys who also work at the fu-fu resort making minimum wage) head to the hills with our jointly owned, beater Savage 110 243 to get an elk. We grew up there, learned to hunt elk from our daddies and granddaddies and we know where the elk are used to being. We need the elk because we have a couple of kids that eat like horses and cry at night when they are hungry. Off we go into the local public lands...Weminuche Wilderness. As we ease up on the elk, out from behind the tree pops a local occifer of the law and off we go to the calaboose�it is against the law to hunt. As we are sitting handcuffed in the back of the car waiting to go to jail, up drives a four wheel drive Ferrari with built up seats and a couple of big old fat dudes that are of an odd color, say black, carrying $10,000 custom made 338s, wearing mink coats, and $500 walking boots, etc. They are there to get a set of elk horns for their den back in their home in say, Saudi Arabia. The local occifers are hanging out to talk to their guide, another person of color with an even bigger gun, about where to pick up the meat from the elk they kill. The occifers have big freezers and their families need meat for the winter.

There are no simple answers to complex questions.

I live on the banks of the Sengwa, just upstream from its mouth at Lake Kariba. At any time, within 200 yards of my village, you can see a small herd of Mvu, the Hippopotamus, from my village. Mvu makes it dangerous for our boats to go near him in the water. At night, he comes out and raids our crops. If we interfere, he kills us. We are helpless.

And hungry. There are no fat people in my village. The children have distended stomachs. Everyone wears old hand-me-down T-shirts from western countries. Our local councillor has a "Hard Rock Cafe-New Orleans" T-shirt. The medicine man wears a girl's pink shirt with "Sexy" written on it. The little kids get the most tattered clothes.

In thousands of years, my people have never developed the technology to kill Mvu, the great river horse, let alone Nyati or the great tusked Njovu, who live in the hills. But we have made snares. The USAID put in phone lines. All the wire disappeared, for snares. The USAID put up a fence a few miles awy to keep the Elephant out of the crops. The wire disappeared, to make snares. That is why there is practically no plains game around, only the larger animals.

If we had the technology to kill Mvu, Mvu would soon disappear from here, like the Impala and Kudu have already done.

One day two white men show up, together with three of my tribesmen who are in their employ. The white man takes out his heavy rifle and, as all my friends watch, shoots Mvu with it. Mvu sinks. We go out in boats with poles and find Mvu. One of the brave ones jumps into the water and attaches a rope to Mvu's leg. The white men pull Mvu ashore with the winch on their Toyota Land Cruiser. And tonight we feast. The children won't starve. More of them will live to our average lifespan of 35.

We are happy. As long as we have enough to eat and some Mopane sticks to burn at night we are happy. We are happier, in fact, than the crazy white men who live in their cities.

The one white man we have seen before. He runs four safari camps. He employs about 50 of my tribe, the BaTonga. For instance, there is Samuel, his second tracker. Samuel is a Christian, has three wives he has bought with his earnings, and 33 children. He can sell the girl children for five cows each, as the bride price, and then have his sons tend the cattle and make them grow. Samuel will become wealthy, having many cows.

If you give my people guns to kill Mvu, there will soon be no more Mvu. The white man who employs us will go away. We will have to have more goats to eat up the plants, extending the desert. With no safari income, the government will not be able to afford the Tsetse fly traps, which we will steal anyasy for the cloth and metal in them. The fly will come back and it's diseases are fatal to all goats and cattle. Half of us will disappear. Who shall pick which half?

And that's the way it actually is, Zambezi Valley, September, 2008.

Nda kavima Nuyati.

HEAVY!

til later

The old saying :"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for life" The second part should be changed to: "Teach a man to fish and you have an ecological disaster"

I see today we are in our idealistic mode! If you really want to do something worthwhile send me some money and I will have a water well dug in one of the villages...this other stuff is just poppycock!

1+ Ray!

Ask the villagers what they need most, and most will say "a good producing bore hole". With one, they can grow the food they require.

makes you wonder doesnt it? we will all die if we dont get food, but we wont live any loger if we do have the technology to get food for ourselves because we will be humans and turn into individuals trying to get wealthy without regard for anyone but ourselves. that dude that has 30 + kids needs his nuts lopped off. if you cant feed em, dont breed em. that goes for everyone, including myself.

Just got back from an African bowhunting safari.
After 5 days, the cooler at camp had: 1 eland, 1 kudu, 1 impala, 1 nyala, 1 waterbuck, and 1 bushbuck, all skinned and quartered- all mine.

The next day, the camp hands loaded up all the meat, and drove it to a local charity in the nearest town.

I couldn't help but think that this meat was going to feed a lot of folks for a long time. Made me feel good that my efforts were not in vain- even though I was hunting for heads, not an ounce of meat was going to be wasted.

So- get to Africa, shoot your share, and help solve the problem!!

Ya forgot the part about them big old fat dudes sitting around later in sumptuous luxury, eating well while confidently expounding upon exactly what is wrong with Colorado...

Birdwatcher

In thousands of years, my people have never developed the technology to kill Mvu

Sheesh! How I survived three years in the bush without getting jumped by a "Mvu" or the "great-tusked Njovu" I'll never understand

I didn't think there WERE any where I was, or in most of Africa, tho' I did traipse seventy miles through Njovu country once. Saw nary a one (just as well ) 'cept flattened-down tracks in the tall grass where they'd passed.

And tonight we feast. The children won't starve. More of them will live to our average lifespan of 35.

What? There's enough sustainable protein in them flocks of mvu (rhymes with "schmoo" ) to support the whole village? USAID has been sadly mistaken. Instead of all that wire (enough to keep out them great tusked Njovus??!!!), they shoulda just sent a guy once a week with a .30-06

So, if a bunch of big fat Saudis bring us a whole slew of fence wire without being asked to places where some folks are in dire need of wire for other purposes, nobody's gonna steal that wire? Heck, probably the thieves were SELLING it, about like we do copper.

After all, them soft pink Saudis are spending more playing at hunting than our whole village, sick kids and all, make in ten years. SURELY there's lots more wire where that came from.

...and average life span of 35?? Interesting thing about averages, for example even if you have a bunch of 63's, 75's, 59's, and 82's, just a relative handful of 2's, 7's, 0.4's, and such will drag yer average WAY down, to like a 35.

Ask yer average high school kid how that average grade math goes

.....or better yet, ask George Washington, the average lifespan of our population in Colonial times being about 35.

We are happy. As long as we have enough to eat and some Mopane sticks to burn at night we are happy. We are happier, in fact, than the crazy white men who live in their cities.

Wow! Must be that I was in an especially depressed village or something.... (OTOH, does your village have Peace Corps?? Maybe it was ME that was depressing my lot....)

The one white man we have seen before. He runs four safari camps. He employs about 50 of my tribe, the BaTonga.

Good news! The only way ANY of this stuff is gonna get saved is if it pays.

Samuel is a Christian, has three wives he has bought with his earnings, and 33 children.

Which means there must be another two guys with no wives at all (Ask the FLDS ), which brings us down to an average of 10 kids per guy, still bad, but not at 33 either.

Actually, when figuring rate of increase, the males are basically irrelevant. The question being how many kids would those ladies have if they were married to someone else.

He can sell the girl children for five cows each, as the bride price

So, Africans are selling their kids? I taught hundreds, nary a one was for sale.

All of which brings up the question of where do Black Americans fit into all of this. I mean, is it THEIR people who can't kill elephants or not?

Um... and while we're at it, what have YOU and yours invented there Bwana? Anything at all? Pointed toothpicks? Comfortable slippers? Anything?

Birdwatcher

To allow the indigenous of Africa hunt game is a recipe for disaster, take a look at how they are decimating the game herds in the Northern reaches of Africa and now the effect this is having in Zimbabwe...Regardless of what some people would like to believe these folks are not conservationist, they will kill game for no particular reason and they will only eat a portion of what they shoot..They live from one day to the next without any thought to the future, thats just the way it is, like it or not fir all indigenous tribal people...

Sounds just like the English, them people killed off most everything, if it weren't for shooting poachers and setting man traps it'd ALL have been gone......

Unlike we Irish however, without whom there would be no hope...

If you really want to do something worthwhile send me some money and I will have a water well dug in one of the villages...

Amen Brother.

For about four months in the harsh dry season of '82/'83, my own life revolved around a bore hole that a German crew had drilled in the next village two miles up the mountain.

What's the current going rate for a bore hole anyhow?

Birdwatcher

Birdwatcher:

Your experience in the Peace Corps in Western Africa 20 years ago has about as much relevance to the Zambezi Valley today as the behavior of New York investment bankers has to that of rural Ecuadoreans. Actually, New York and Ecuador are probably closer to each other, culturally and geographically, than West Africa and Zimbabwe.

I express no opinion about things of which I am ignorant, such as West Africa.

In the area I write of, any marriage requires a bride price paid to the father of the bride by the groom's family. Currently it's about 5 cows, depending on the bride's social status etc. Or four cows, a goat, and some money. This equates to about $500 US.

BTW: At least two of our other trackers had two wives. Trackers have relatively high incomes and can support more than one wife.

And yes, villagers along the Sengwa River live much of their lives in sight of hippos and crocs, and except for the odd poacher, who is strictly punished, have never evolved the technology to kill Hippos. In other parts of Africa they have, but I am not writing about them. One week ago today I killed a hippo, firing from a village on the Sengwa. In short, I've been there.

I don't understand your comment about American blacks. Few if any of their ancestors came from the Zambezi Valley.

Do not call me "Bwana." I've never been to East Africa. You may call me "Muvhimi Njovu" or "Indy."

I have actually invented some things. What's your point?

Your experience in the Peace Corps in Western Africa 20 years ago has about as much relevance to the Zambezi Valley today as the behavior of New York investment bankers has to that of rural Ecuadoreans. Actually, New York and Ecuador are probably closer to each other, culturally and geographically, than West Africa and Zimbabwe.


Um... twenty-FIVE years ago there Bub, get it right

..and are you seriously suggesting that a subsistence farming economy in West Africa is like Wall Street compared to the Zambezi Valley?

And yes, villagers along the Sengwa River live much of their lives in sight of hippos and crocs, and except for the odd poacher, who is strictly punished, have never evolved the technology to kill Hippos.

Sooo.... they CAN kill hippos, and elephants too (albeit with Western arms), but are forbidden from doing so? Doesn't this put a whole 'nother light on the "dumb Zambezian" predicament?

One week ago today I killed a hippo, firing from a village on the Sengwa. In short, I've been there.

For a brief vacation, before returning to California, to write about "what is wrong with Africans" (nothing that a bit of roast hippo and burning mopane sticks can't fix apparently).

BTW: At least two of our other trackers had two wives. Trackers have relatively high incomes and can support more than one wife.

I can top ya there, I taught many of the Bakari kids, FORTY-TWO of them, from a guy with nine wives. But societies that strive for universal polygamy have real probelms though, like I said, ask the FLDS. Mr Bakari was no more typical of my area than I suspect those wealthy trackers were by local standards.

I don't understand your comment about American blacks. Few if any of their ancestors came from the Zambezi Valley....

Hmm.. so South-East-Central Africans are entirely different and disconnected from West Africans? Odd, the widespread diffusion of the Haemoglobin C (sickle cell) gene would suggest otherwise.

I have actually invented some things. What's your point?

You understand my point perfectly of course, having harped upon how them Zambezians having been unable to devise devices to kill big game, a question of how you yourself have personally advanced our common technological assets is perfectly relevant.

...or do people, by and large, accept as the norm the technology they were born with?

Which touches upon that old question... "What if the South woulda had AK 47's" ...and if the Army of Northern Virginia DIDN'T have AK 47's, why had they not invented one?

Do not call me "Bwana." I've never been to East Africa. You may call me "Muvhimi Njovu" or "Indy."

"Muvhimi Njovu"??

I suspect far more could be learned by finding out what them Zambezians call you when you ain't around....

Birdwatcher

And I thought that hangin' in the hood and waitin' for the welfare check to come was purely an American pastime.

"..and are you seriously suggesting that a subsistence farming economy in West Africa is like Wall Street compared to the Zambezi Valley?"

I believe I said Ecuador, not the Zambezi Valley.

"Doesn't this put a whole 'nother light on the "dumb Zambezian" predicament?"

Don't think I ever inferred they were dumb.

"For a brief vacation, before returning to California, to write about "what is wrong with Africans" (nothing that a bit of roast hippo and burning mopane sticks can't fix apparently)."

I don't think anything is wrong with them.

Also, I'm not from California (thank goodness).

""What if the South woulda had AK 47's" ...and if the Army of Northern Virginia DIDN'T have AK 47's, why had they not invented one?"

I don't understand what this has to do with Africa. Maybe Gen'l Lee couldn't get his AK47 to work because all his development funds had been appropriated for aircraft carriers. How the heck should I know?

"I suspect far more could be learned by finding out what them Zambezians call you when you ain't around...."

Maybe they call me "lousy shot." Maybe they think I'm an overpaid SOB who is not in good enough physical shape. Perhaps they think I draw hasty conclusions from a two-week vacation. Or that I look down on them (though I don't). But one thing is certain. They don't think I'm a wannabe grade school teacher with class envy from Dipstick, Texas.

Africans unable to utilize the local game remind me of the "Kings Deer" in England. Maybe they need an African Robin Hood.