Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Second Amendment So now what do we do?

Well said.

Ram: It needs to be proven that there WEREN'T any. The fact of the matter is that it is a matter of RECORD that Saddam USED WMD on his own people ( the Kurds). But even if there weren't any, the past three administrations AND the Congress, not to mention the intelligence services of just about evey credible country out there AND the UN said that he had them. Who cares, we should go after Syria, then Iraq, the North Korea if they don't fess up. AS far as the "Independent Counsel" goes, there is really no such thing. Just because one gets appointed that is not part of the administration, he still brings to the table his OWN political bias, only it's harder to detect. Look at what happened with Iran-Contra. THAT independent counsel was a frigging democrat and even though the evidence was insurmountable and accurate that the Reagan administration was not at fault, he persisted on it. THe original law was written by democrats to go after Republicans during the Nixon era. BTW, do you know who served in THAT SO CALLED INDEPENDENT COUNSEL back then? Hillary Clinton. Why don't you just come out and admit that all you are doing is stirring up [bleep] to hang Bush with. AS a serving member of the US military, I stand behind THIS COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF 100%, unlike that other piece of garbage we had for 8 years before him. Jorge

Pretty simple Joe. If we had all the advance spy goodies you keep talking about we could see what they were wearing. If they ain't wearing MOPP they ain't using Chem/Bio. If they went to MOPP we'd have seen it and gone to MOPP. They weren't carrying MOPP gear because they thought we were gonna use it. If you've got all the experience that you say you do then you know that stuff works both ways. It doesn't take much of a mistake or change in the weather to get it blown right back in your face and if its a persistant agent its gonna be there a long time. Remember ENRAS Joe? If you had ever gone actual with that what would you have been wearing? You also seem to be forgetting that Bill Clinton believed Saddam had WMD too. So did just about everybody else in the world. Prior to our deployment the argument wasn't about whether or not he had them but whether or not he should be given more time to comply with the UN reslolutions. If we were fooled so was everyone else. How does that make the current administration liars?

Yeah Skidrow, that is real good thinking. Saddam Hussein cared so much about his own people that he would have made sure that all of his soldiers were outfitted in the proper MOPP gear before using chemical or biological weapons. Keep on believing that Skidrow. Of course, if you believe that, then you probably would have to conceed that Saddam may not have been as bad as we said he was, wouldn't you?

Besides, I seem to remember that we made a real big deal about finding 3000 unissued MOPP suits. After all, why would he have so many suits unless he planned to use chemicals?

Funny how that logic works. When our soldiers take extra precautions it is just being prudent. When other armies do it, it evidence of their devious intentions.

Try agains Skidrow. Relying on the caring nature of Saddam Hussein for his soldiers goes against everything we said about him before the war. If I had been one our commanders and genuinely concerned about WMDs, I might have suspected a trick if none of the Iraqi soldiers had any MOPP gear on them and been extra alert. Better yet, ask the Iranians about how Saddam always used to be extra careful about his own soldiers before he launched a poison gas attack. Even better, ask all the Iraqui widows and orphans how Saddam would never do anything as devious as launch a gas attack against the Iranians (or anyone else) before first making sure that all of his soldiers were properly outfitted and prepared. Yeah, that's the ticket.

All is good. Keep on believing the war is good and that because it is good, it doesn't matter what was said or how we got into it. Keep on believing that we should go into Syria and then North Korea. That way, when the body bags really start to come home and Tokyo or better yet, San Francisco is a smoking radioactive hole in the ground, you can take comfort in the fact that our government and this administration has the purest of intentions and that everything they do is for our own good.

Saddam would have to protect his troops not out of concern for their individual future, but for tactical and strategic reasons. After all, he needs them.

Joe...I think we should pull out everywhere, leave the world to itself, and use our military to defend ourselves and seal the borders.

I second that motion.

I'm all for that. Pull out and pretty much disband the active Army. Keep a strong Navy, Air Force, and ICBM force. Dare anyone to mess with us, but stop messing with other people. Protect our borders and get stricter on immigration, but allow our markets to be open to all and trade with all nations on earth with favoritism to none.

Some might say that would leave us open to oil embargos or other such chicanery. Well, it is a two way street. If they aren't selling, then we ain't buying. Wouldn't take too long for someone to start selling.

Live and let live. When someone invades Texas, l'll be there on the line. Otherwise, let's leave everyone else alone.

Of all people, YOU second THAT motion?!?

Hawkeye, I am shocked! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hawkeye, Tell me what real terrible thing or things that the govt. has done to you? This being a 2nd Amend. page, has the govt. seized yours or anyone else you know of weapons? If they were seized, it was legally through a warrant or violation of the law.

Many complain about the Assualt Wpn. ban. It's interesting that it was passed with at least 2/3 majority in both the house and senate. It was probably signed by reps and senators from your own state, that you put there. Many blame the Pres. but it couldn't get to his desk, unless it went through the house and senate. What do you and others really need these weapons for anyway? I've got a fully auto. M4, that I carry in my car each day. I use it during felony stops of stolen veh's, felony warrant service and etc. Other then to have something else to go and shoot you really have no use of one. Most were designed for only one thing and that's to shoot people. Sure most can be redesigned to hunt varmits, and target shoot, but that wasn't there primary design, it was for military or LE, are you either one? Most people have other weapons that can do the same job and probably do it better.

The same with hi-cap mags. do you use these on a daily basis? Most people can't bring their weapons to work unless they are in LE or military. Could you just as well get by with 10 shot mags. Most people only carry on the weekend or when they are not at work. I could get by without the hi-caps. When I started in my career it was all 6 shot and speed loaders or drop pouches. Some of the finer semi-auto handguns ever produced only carried 7 or 8 rounds. So I can fully understand your reasoning, please explain all the actual, not perceived screwings you got from the govt.

Hunter, the point isn't whether you need it or not: Need is highly subjective and shouldn't be gov't mandated. The second amendment specifies the right to bear arms. I don't think it's there to guarantee your hunting pleasure, wherefore you only need 10rd clips.

The intent was a well armed citizenry.

If that's the concept, then I should be able to own or do about whatever I want to. I don't have problems with bearing of arms and have been doing such for many years. People can bear any arms they want, with the exception of some. You don't need certain weapons to protect yourself. I'ld rather have a hand grenade many times then a handgun, but I can't. Hell, we need to repeal the laws not allowing convicted felons and mental patients from possessing weapons, they have rights too.

I am not trying to be an [bleep], but your experience and time in the saddle as an American who has the right to bear arms is mighty slim <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> As far as knowledge of the American political system and Constitution, you are just now eligible to vote. This is being explained to me from a young man who lived in a country that was under Soviet/East Germany Control until 1989. Prior to that the people living there were told that the fences and the minefields were there to protect them from the American/NATO troops attacking, raping and killing them. I do hope they understood it was to keep them under control and from leaving. It's only been 15 years ago (Jan 89) since the wall fell. So I'll just figure that you came to the US after that time period, don't get me wrong I am glad that you did immigrate, I would also to get away from that part of Germany. I wouldn't put your age past 30, even if that much. I am in my mid 40's and your telling me how it is regarding American Cons. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well..tell me then how the 2nd amendment is to be interpreted, and what gives the gov't the right to restrict what types of arms you can own.

Why is it so bad and worth of legislation against it, to have high capacity magazines, pistol grips, automatic weapons (properly licensed)?

Ten or twenty years down the road semi-automatics will be something that the average "Citizen" just doesn't need. Legislate against it.

A little further down the road pump actions will be illegal.

And so on....



Look, I think that there should be licensing of Class III arms.

Where did the felon law come from, anyhow?



Regarding AWB and say, hi-cap clips...where's the harm? What significant advantage does it bring?



I might check back with you in ten, twenty years, whenever I am "eligible" to discuss constitutional matters. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think I understand the US constitution well enough to discuss it. Probably better than a large chunk of native US citizens. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And we believed all of it, too! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


We could go anywhere we wanted...Bulgaria, Poland, Rumania, Chechoslovakia.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


25. And like I said, I'll get back to ya when I am at an eligible age <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It isn't a question of need. If we start justifying what one person "needs" we start down the path of licensing, restictions on numbers, types, calibers, gauges, actions, etc. Eventually we come to the point where a citizen's right is granted not secured by the government. After removing the 2nd Amendment which one should come next?


That has nothing to do with his ability to express an opinion. Also, as a Naturalized Citizen he may actually know MORE than you or I. We both grew up with kids who should never have graduated school, but because they simply got too old or disruptive moved on. They couldn't pass any form of standardized test, but still they get all the rights simply by virtue of being born here, whether they understand them or not.

No actually it was Nov 9th, 1989. I was studying in Munich at the time and managed to get up to Berlin to get my piece. Hunter, if you can't get a simple fact like this right...



Again, his age has nothing to do with it. He understands the concept of "shall not be infringed", obviously you don't.

Bob

Gunny Bob, nice to see you here...didn't know you hang out here.

Oh, the irony of a lifelong American citizen, Hunter1960, lecturing a former Communist subject, Matthias, on the meaning and responsibilities of freedom and sounding more like a Communists than the Communist refugee.

Hunter1960 probably thinks that the quote "To each according to his need, and from each according to his ability" comes from the Declaration of Independence or possibly the Constitution.

Hunter1960, if need is a question, then why do you need a V-8 in your car. After all, a six cylinder or four cylinder will get better gas mileage, be less harmful on the environment, and demonstrate that you understand your responsibilities as a citizen. For that matter, there is no real reason that anybody needs to make over $80,000.00 in a year. Let's just confiscate everything over $80,000.00 from people and give the rest to the more deserving poor. As to guns, well, you can kill a deer just as dead with a muzzle loader, so why is it necessary for a responsible citizen to want something that could do harm to someone else if it fell in the wrong hands.

Hunter1960 if you have fallen into the trap of evaluating rights based on need, then turn in your citizenship at the door, and get on down to Cuba as that it is about the last Communist country left around.

I really couldn't care less if the AWB was ever repealed or not. It doesn't effect me in one bit. If I want to buy these items I can now, no problem and not at the mark up that citizens pay. It just fires people up who really think their getting screwed out of something, if they can't have it. It's my right, It's my right they complain. One of the ideas of the AWB was to give LE an advantage in safety over the scroats who had access to certain weapons but LE didn't. The reason they didn't was that most citizens complained if their taxes were increased to pay for this equipment (better weapons & body armor). The pendulum of the govt. swings back and forth, this time it's toward the govt. side. If it swings back to the other side, you'll be happy for awhile then you'll piss & whine about something else. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Somehow, I expected a reply of that sort. Thanks for not disappointing me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />



I am sure glad responsible older boys like you keep watch over the more dangerous toys, so that us younger tods don't get hurt.

Come on Joe, you can do better than that. Caring about the welfare of your troops has nothing to do with how you equip them. How badly you want to win, or at least survive as a government does. 3000 MOPP suits is a big deal when dealing with an army of hundreds of thousands? I think not.



I didn't say that, you did. As I said, and you failed to acknowledge, Chem/Bio works both ways. Prudent usage would dictate the use of proper MOPP posture to preclude accidental exposure. Accidental exposure on the initiating side produces severe casualties and loss of the advantage sought by the use of Chem/Bio agents. Unless you're a Voodoo master you can't fight a war with an army of dead soldiers.

As for the rest of your diatribe, rather than showing your vast knowledge of military tactics, stratagy and leadership all you're showing is your bleeding heart. Shouting at the top of your lungs "THEY LIED" just isn't a very pursuasive argument. If you have some creditable personal knowledge as to how you know that they lied, why aren't you telling us about it? Why aren't you including UN in your accusation since every one of their resolutions assumed the presence of WMD in Iraq? How about some facts and logic on your part?

You know a good tour in the military would not hurt you one bit. This now that your a red, white and blue American, you could stand up and help protect this fine country. You would get to be around the toys that you so much want to play with. You could join the WA. Natl. Guard, the training would be of good use to you. The PT probably wouldn't hurt you either. You would do well, the Army would love you, I bet your Drill Sgt. would just be impressed about a 25 year old. You could tell them how it is, and straighten them out with your knowledge and been there, done that experiences. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Oh! I almost forgot, think about it you could become General Matthias and someday run for President, no rush at this time you still got eleven years until your old enough to hold the office. (36). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />