Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The Stand-Off

There's a few of you, or at leas one or two out there (grin) that seem to have a pretty good head on your shoulders. Honest opinion now, no fooling around. Where do you think we stand, on this China mess? And what do you think we should do about it? I know what I think! Blockade that little Island of their shore, I think they call it Taiwan. And Nationalize all their assets in this country. Thank God, I don't have the button.<P>Phil

Phil, normally I would agree with your stance but after having a son in the Marines in harms way during one of these little disagreements, I am glad they are taking it slow and easy. I just don't believe in putting good young men in harm's way to settle what is essentially China's political struggle. This will work itself out in the proper time.<BR>Now, if they were to do harm to our people that are being held, all bets are off!- Sheister

Greyghost, <P>I am glad you don't have the button, too. Taiwan, more correctly called The Republic of China, is a free and democratic society. It is where the Nationalist Chinese fled in 1949 when they lost to the commies.<P>The island you are referring to is Hainan. It is large and somewhat farther to the SW than Taiwan.<P>Now, as far as the hostages are concerned, I sure hate to start a war over this, but I would instantly revoke Red China's MFN status, as a starter, and go from there. I would not apologize, now or ever. They are our service men and women over there and we owe them maximum effort and the inflicting of maximum pain on the Chinese in order to get them back. If anything happens to those people, then some reasonable multiple should be chosen as retribution, say 1,000,000 to one. Nukes would do it. Not that I am not peace loving, mind you, but peace is a function of strength. If Clinton had not wimped out in our China relations---duh, wonder why--in the last few years, it is highly unlikely that we would be in this situation.

Guy's: I have to disagree on this one, I have a nephew in the Army right now. And know quite a few more boys in the service as well. I believe right now, non-action is the worse thing we could do. By blockcading Taiwon, we both protect those people, which have just recently been re-instated into the Replubic of China. And hurt them in the pocket book as well. Blockcading Hainan would have no effect at all. Nationalizing their assets here would also help.<P>Remember right now there tearing our highest technology out of that plane.<P>But I guess none of this matters now! Their talking about sending the Reverend Jessie Jackson over.<P>Phil

Well they can keep Jesse free and clear! As for action, we need to reinstate our policy of: <B> IF YOU MESS WITH AMERICANS, YOU WILL GET TO MEET A FEW MORE IN GUNBOATS</B>. We have wimped out way too much since Viet Nam no wonder the rest of the world holds us in contempt. As was said "peace can only be negotiated from a position of power". Nuff said.<P>------------------<BR>T LEE<BR>Remember: There is no such thing as OVERKILL. Just a generous margin of SAFETY! <P>APATHY...Freedoms greatest enemy!

Guys: Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting hostilities. I'm suggesting taking a firm action, immediately and standing firm. We found out in the 70's and 80's what non action in hostage situations gets.<P>Phil

Tough question. Just me, I'd say nuke em till they glow and shoot em in the dark. But, I got a nephew who's a jarhead, so I don't want to get anything nasty started. <BR> The plane isn't really important, although I hope the crew got all that stuff destroyed. We got a Russian MIG in the '70s and sent it home in a bunch of crates. <BR> China stands to lose some money by falling out with us, and they seem pretty worried about American weapons sales to Tiawan. That should give us some leverage.<BR> Hey, at least we've got a good man in the White House. That S.O.B. Klinton woulde have written off the crew, appoligized, and given them an a-- kissing to boot!<BR>7mmbuster<BR>Trust in God and Fear Nothing

Isn't that the saying, "Nuke-em if you <BR>got-em". If it would come to that, yes! But I can't see waiting 6 Months to a Year, and have to buy them back, or start knuckling under. Let's start getting tuff now! Financially first, Then!<P>I know this isn't the Cuba missle crissis. But where would we be today, if we had tried to negoatiate back then.<P>Phil

China has the ability to nuke us too! Let's not go to war over this small event.<P>I do agree with financial methods of persuasion though. I also agree with whoever said that 8 years of Clinton pampering the Chinese is a big part of the problem.<P>I doubt we lost much secret technology in this plane, after all, the Chinese got all they needed from that National Labratory.<P>------------------<BR>Brian<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/bw_99835/" TARGET=_blank>The 416 Taylor WebPage!</A>

1. <B>DO NOT</B> send Jesse Jackson.<P>2. Immediately revoke their free trade status and boycott all goods made there. I'd even sent what we have back and never trade with those commies again.<P>3. Make a motion to the UN (God how I hate that name) to bar China from voting and revoke their membership until our crew is returned along with the complete aircraft.<P>4. Start sending ships in their direction as a message along with increased military air presence off their shores.<P>5. If these things didn't sway them I would use the ships on their way for blockades and begin harassing their air-force so as to splash a few and hold their pilots for ransom.<P>6. Give them a 20 year probation until they could ever be considered for anything.<P><P>------------------<BR><B>"The only thing to fear is fear itself"</B>

Well, since they didn't brief me on where our plane was when the accident happened, I can't say what action we should take. If we were in their air space spying, what would we do if the situation were reversed. Now if we were in neutral air space, spomp my feet for sure, that was an act of war. But since I don't know what, or where, this took place I will leave the decision up to the powers that we have elected to do what is necessary. -- no

From what I hear, we were 80 miles out of China's airspace. I wouldn't send more airplanes over, as that would add more to their collection. <BR> We should revoke China's free trade status though. They persecute Christians over there, they have child labor, they're a bunch of communists, and they've got our plane to boot! There's lots of good reasons for that.

I do not know the details, but wouldn't it have been more sensible to put the plane down in the sea and take to the life rafts? I understand that there were a few US ships in the area and at least the secret kit would be lost to the Chinese rather than make them a gift of it?

First of all, ditching at sea is a high risk proposition under the best of circumstances. That is, that you have a relatively undamaged aircraft and it is controllable. <P>Current reports indicate that there was distinct control problems with that aircraft and that the flaps which allow low speed maneuvers were damaged or not working. Therefore, the pilot would not have been able to slow down enough to safely try to ditch.<P>In addition, getting 24 people off of a ditched aircraft and into life rafts is an extremely iffy proposition, assuming that it does not cartwheel or break up on contact with the water, with a great chance of loss of life. Then, you have the problem of getting found by your friends before the other side finds you, or worse, no one finds you.<P>If the story is ever told, I'll bet we find out that the pilot did an incredible job to land that plane. If he had been anywhere but Red China he and crew would be home by now. He, nor the US high command would have had any idea of the flap that has ensued. It is not like we just started doing this. We have been running these missions world wide, in one form or another, daily, since at least the Korean War.

According to the news this morning our plane was inside Chinese air space, does that mean we were in the wrong place? What would we have done if China sent a spy plane inside our air space? Have our leaders become that narrow minded, we don't know right from wrong anymore? Do we think we are the big kid on the block and can do anything we want? One of the reasons Americans are not held in high regard around the world anymore. We are not rulers of the world but some of our leaders act like it. Like you and me, we resent our government telling us how to live. JMHO -- no

Some of you old timers remember the 1950's and the BS with the USSR.<BR>Well I think the evil empire just sent their next batter to the plate.<BR>We can do the political,diplomatic,spineless bargaining like we did with Kruschev,or jump on their red hides now before they can use all the intell Klinton gave them and build more ICBM's(Which will cost our children billions like it did with the USSR).<BR>They are keeping the Sailors and Marine hostage because they know their position is weak for the Olympics,Taiwan,trade status,and their allies are dropping like flies in a Raid factory.<BR>They coddle north Korea and supply them.<BR>They support all sorts of terrorism,and sell arms and munitions to enemy's of our country.<BR>They need those boys as a bargaining chip,and that's all.<BR>Years back I got to review an intell report from Russia that dealt with several Russians that were held by Islamic radicals.<BR>The Terrorists demanded several million dollars and weapons in exchange.<BR>The Ruskies dispatched a Spetsnaz unit which promptly killed 30 of the factions members and their immediate familys.<BR>The hostages were released.End of problem.<BR>The crew on the EP3 knew their risks and accepted them.They know that a single hair on their heads wont be touched because of the economic and military threat the US presents.To back down now and give in to blackmail would encourage further ugliness and terrorism by other foriegn governments.<BR>I miss Ronny Reagan and Margie Thatcher!<BR>At least we wont have Klinton trading Military assets and technology for their release!<BR>Pray for the crew,and hope that the staff GW put together makes the right choice.<BR>There is much more hanging in the balance than the crew...it maybe our countrys future direction and the lives of millions.<BR>If we had that missile defence system up and running we could demand their release AND hang the Nuke over their heads for such BS.<BR>Klinton pulled the teeth from our guard dog,and China knows it.<BR>E4E

according to cnbc they are sending them back. we sent a letter of condolence and apparently that was enough.<P>------------------<BR>"and I ain't got no money but I damn sure got it mad cause I ain't askin nobody for nothing if I can't get it on my own. If you don't like the way I'm livin you just leave this long haired country boy alone"<BR>Charlie Daniels<P>"I got a shotgun a rifle and a 4 wheel drive and a country boy can survive" Hank jr.

I am all for sending the Rev. Jesse Jackson to China but only for trade purposes. We trade him for the 24 servicemen and women that are being held hostage. It will be a win-win situation for all involved.<BR>a) the Chinese get a high profile american to hold as a hostage<BR>b) Jesse gets his wish to live in a communist country.<BR>c) We as americans win because we get rid of a huge problem in Jesse.<BR>d) The current hostages win because they get to come home.<BR>e) The US does not have to apologize because apologizing will only bring Jesse home.<P><BR>Wow! Am I a good diplomat or what?

Hoss: I'm with you on that one. I'm for sending the Reverend Jessie Jackson, Clinton, along with hilary and his daughter. Just so long as China agrees to keep them!<P>Phil

Greyghost-Aren't you referring to a blockade of Hong Kong instead of Taiwan. Taiwan is still free;Hong Kong just went back to the commie *******s. I say we send a few Army or Marine units and a squadron of f-15 Strike Eagles to Taiwan with the assurance that any aggression toward our allies would be treated like a strike on the US.