Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer, reduced loads question

Mule Deer, in your writings you noticed if you used lead bullet reduced loads in a rifle, and then tried a jacketed full load on paper, that the rifle lost zero for the first shot.



I just discovered this last fall. I had developed subsonic cast bullet loads for most of my rifles, that shot to the same sight settings at 25 yds as my full loads. Some of these I have used for 15 years.



I shot 5 lead loads in my .300 win. and then decided to check my 200 yd zero with full load jacketed bullets (180 nozler part.). First shot was 5 inches high, next 2 right on my aiming point. Next 3 right on again. I then shot 2 more grouse loads (lead loads) and my next full load was 7 inches high. The next 3 full loads were back to where they should be.



Then I did the same test with my .280 ackley, with even worse results, the first 3 full load jacketed bullets at 200 yds didn't hit paper, and it took 9 shots before it returned to it's 200 yd zero. This was shooting Barnes X bullets, 120 gr.



Now I have started to develop jacketed bullet grouse loads, ( not with X bullets, I'm afraid they will stick in the bore). I remembered an article in Handloaders digest by Ellwood Epps, and he wrote he used jacketed bullet grouse loads with the bullets seated backwards.



I have tried some of these loads, ( 150 rem spitzer seated backwards, 6 grs reddot) in my .300. The load is right on the top of the bottom post ( duplex reticule) at 25 yds and I can shoot 10 of them and then go to 200 yds with full loads and be zeroed with the first shot. The velocity of the grouse load is 1020 fps on average.



I have only shot 4 varying hares and a porcupine with the new grouse loads, but they seem to kill better than the lead loads.



Have you tried seating jacketed bullets backwards?, do you think this is safe or am I doing something dangerous. Some guys at the range think I may be in danger of sticking a bullet in my barrels, whats your opinion?

48 Views and no comments?

Yeah, I have tried seating bullets backwards and it works fine. Why would it create excess pressures? The bearing surface of the bullet is exactly the same. My own guess is that if pressures changed at all, they'd go down slightly, because the bullet would be les slikely to be "bumped up" in diameter by the powder gas.

Backwards bullets essentially act as flat-pointed solids and are very effective at taking small game at close ranges. Farther out, of course, they tend to drop very rapidly. A full-caliber flat point isn't the most ballistically efficient shape!

JB

Thanks for the reply, another advantage to them is they are easy to identify as squib/sub loads. There is no chance confusing them with full loads. Some rifles have trouble feeding these loads from the magazine.

Anyone tried doing this with a military full-metal-jacket bullet?

Where I live, it is illegal to hunt game (including small game) with FMJ bullets. If you look at the back of a typical military hardpoint, however, you'll see that it is open on the bottom in much the same way as a Nosler Partition. If one were to seat that bullet in reverse, you'd essentially have an open flat nosed bullet which would likely even expand on impact.

Since 147-grain military bullets (and loads) are a dime a dozen in .308, this might be an interesting option. Does anyone have experience with this?

I kinda like the idea of using flat point or round nose soft points for short range loads. Easy to tell apart from the full power spitzer loads.
Anybody try magnum primers for better accuracy with reduced charge loads ? Works for me. E

Below is a link to some interesting reading from the Kifaru hunting board. What are your thoughts on the small game loads/powders listed?

Handloading for all-purpose use of big game rifles

Gents - are the small game loads safe? I'd love to try them but I can't find any reloading data tat support the charges listed.

Bump

AlanR,

check the IMR website, there are max loads listed using 4227, the Kifaru loads appear to be below max is all I can say

if you want to try cast bullets, the Lyman cast bullet book has light load data