Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa .243 for leopard

Jorge:

While I would absolutely agree with you, there is a huge difference in the temperament between the cats. Still, it wouldn�t make a bit of difference what attitude was, if the cat is hit hard enough!

If you smack one hard enough it really doesn�t matter how much the cat might want revenge, if the nervous system is overwhelmed, organs & bones destroyed it�s done for, period!

Dead right there, means just that.


Richard

"I'm sure it can be done - but the real question would be - why?

I'd want to use a much bigger caliber on any animal that has a reputation of wanting to attack people after being shot.Bigger holes are better holes."

It has been several years since I read the book. The man was a missionary somewhere in China, probably near India. Man Eaters were a big problem, because, as you can imigine, it was probably very uncivilized in the early 1900s.

I don't remember how much experience he had as a hunter, but he killed the first one with the shotgun because that was all he had.

IIRC, he wrote to someone in the United States, asking him to send him a rifle capable of killing a man eating tiger. The .22 was what he received. These tigers were attacking people even before they were shot, and IIRC, they were even coming into the huts at night and getting the people.

If I remember, he was not too satisfied with the .22 High Power, but, as mentioned, that was what was sent to him, so it was that or his shotgun. I think he found it more effective than a shotgun with melted down birdshot.

I think the name of the article was "A Striper for the COunsel."

I don't remember the author. I think it was published in one of the Outdoor Life hunting books from many years ago.

Still, for the .22 to work, and apparently it did, because he lived to write about it, my opinion is there was Divine intervention.

I didn't start this thread to get into a discussion about lightening bolts or .22 bullets that killed like lightening. I wrote what I did because someone mentioned a .22 High Power on Leopards or tigers, or something, and I wrote this to clairify that it was possible and had been done to kill tigers with a .22. I have my own opinion as to why it worked so well. I am sure others have theirs as well.

I've never been to the Dark Continent, but a couple of buddies have. One related that his first PH toted a leveraction .375 Win. for his leopard back-up piece. Interesting choice. I imagine he was using the then-available 250-gr. Winchester ammo. Today, I'd bet some handloads with the 220-grain Hornady InterLock at 2,200 fps would do nicely, as well.

Scott

.375 Win would be an interesting choice. While adequate, you just don't see cartridges for it on every store shelf anywhere.

My head sometimes retains arcane information. My recollection is that the name of the missionary being talked about was one Harry Caldwell. What recollections do others have?

Seems to me it was mentioned by J. O'C in one of his many articles.

Jim

Hey guys,
I'll say up front that I've never hunted Leopard but hope to one day. However, in mentioning the use of the .243 for them, I seemed to recall a famous PH had used a .243 for quite a number of leopards, but couldn't recall who or when. It took me a while to find the time, but I finally had a chance to look into it this morning. In Boddington, Danklef, and Fulson's recent book, "Leopard", there is a chapter titled "Guns & Loads for Leopard," where Boddington talks about what guns, cartridges, etc. that he feels are appropriate. At the bottom of page 107, he talks about his survey for his book, "Safari Rifles" that he did with many PH's about what rifles to use on Safari. (He's recently updated this survey which has been discussed on another thread.) Boddington says that in the survey, for leopard, "quite a number of PHs recommended the .375." He supposes that the reason might be the legal minimum for dangerous game in some African jurisdictions. However, the point I was looking for was a little further on where he talks about the response he got from Harry Selby, who wrote to Boddington and said the following: "Of the hundred-odd leopards taken by my clients while I was huntng in East Africa, the majority were taken with my .243." FWIW, Boddington goes on to say that the .243 is not his idea of the ideal leopard rifle. In any case, it appears that at least one very experienced PH thought that the .243 was just fine for shooting leopard from a blind.

By the way, I'm just bringing this to light as a point of information. I'm not a proponent of the .243, don't own one, and would never think to use one for leopard. Now, the .270 Win, maybe....

Test

Harry Selby? No kidding?

I suppose the light recoil, speed and construction of the bullets could lend use akin to a surgeon with a scalpel. The .243 must have been all the rage back in the '50s and early 60's. It's light for me for use on deer. I think deer catridges start at 25 caliber and go up. Not that the .243 won't work, it does on deer, and probably on cats too, but just not in my hands.

I read this and was immediately reminded of why I like the medium calibers for hunting in bear country in BC.

Of course I can kill a grizzly with a 270, or my 25-284 for that matter. But there's a huge difference between killing one and stopping one.

I am satisfied that a .243 would kill a leopard under ideal conditions. By ideal conditions, I mean a steady rest, a leopard sitting still and broadside, a very accurate rifle, a suitable bullet, and a very skilled shooter.

Here is where I would have a problem with it, though. First off, I have never been to Africa, nor have I ever hunted dangerous game. My hunting has been limited to deer and antelope.

Now the problem. What if, while I had my very accurate .243 lined up for a heart-lung shot on an animal standing still and broadside. Now, the instant I squeezed the trigger, or even while the bullet was on the way, the animal moved, just a little bit and the bullet did not hit exactly the vital area I was aiming for?

Or, what if, the same thing happened and the animal swapped ends just as I fired, and the bullet hit back behind the ribs and angled on up into the neck, missing or barely touching the vital stuff.

You would have a blood trail on your hands, and I had much rather follow a blood trail left by something that makes a big hole going in and coming out than by a .243 that only penetrated 5 or 6 inches into a non-vital area.

I would also rather follow the blood left by a large bullet and an entrance and exit hole that a leopard stung in wrong place by a .243. Angry leopards have been known to bite people who only wounded them and followed them.

Probably most hunters reading this can relate to something like this happening, if you have been hunting long enough. One I vividly remember was a large white tail about 150 yards away. I thought he was standing broadside, but he was angled away just a little bit.

The bullet hit where I was aiming, but instead of going straight through, getting the heart and both lungs, it angled forward, barely damaging one lung. I was using a .300 RUM and there was enough penetration, along with a small amount of internal damage and an entry and exit hole to leave a blood trail, a small one, though, and I found the deer.

My opinion is that it is only a stunt to try to kill big game with a barely adequate rifle. If every thing goes well, it will work, but when things go wrong, which it can if you hunt long enough, I would rather have something that makes a big hole. Two big holes, actually.

I realize that an animal hit in the wrong place with a .375 H & H is a wounded animal, the same as if hit in the wrong place with a .22 or .243, but I think the chances of recovering the animal are much better if the wound was made by a large and deep penetrating bullet.

Of course, if no one has ever put the bullet in the wrong place, then the discussion is moot.

I'm surprised no one from Alaska came forward to suggest the .223AI is adequate.

I have a friend that breeds lions. he had to put large female down as she has been diagnosed with cancer. he got his 10 year old son and the 223 and the boy made an end to the problem with one shot. so can a 243 kill a leopard? yes. should a 243 be used on a leopard? hell no!

over here the leopard has a rather odd qaulity: it is known as the animal that causes hunters to shoot each other. when it is wounded it tends to re-apear in the mids of the hunting party thus the friendly fire.it is VERY agresive and when it attacks it will go for the hunters head and throat.

in the region where i live leopards are rare, 2-3 a year but we never go out hunting with less than one rifle and one of the rifles will allways be at least a .30 calibre just in case the cat is there. however i will try to avoid shooting it if i can help it. my sugestion will be 375 at least

The 243, like many smaller calibers will kill a Leopard under the right conditions as a Leopards bone structure and size is that of a deer so to speak, but the Leopards senue, muscle, and will to live may be greater or at least more aggressive...

I would not use a .243 without backup unless I had no choice, nor will I volentarily use a .243 for anything, its a caliber I don't particularly like, prefering the 25 calibers...The 243 in many cases does not leave a blood trail as you get no exit hole and the animals bleed internally and a Leopard in the high grass without a blood trail is messy business. Any PH should have since enough to know that, especially the PH you are referring too, but PHs are human and flawed like the rest of us, and they also make mistakes from time to time, Many of them have paid the price, and believe it or not, many PHs are not very up to date on firearms, nor can they shoot as well as they are supposed to..

Like any business there are those that excell at their trade and those that do not. I have spent a lifetime dealing with both. I know some that are fantastic hunters but know nothing about guns, and others like Roy Vicent that is a gun nut and ultimate PH in every respect.

Bottom line is Leopard calibers begin with the 7x57, the 270 is better, the 06 is better yet, and the 300s and .338 are ideal. and the .375 is well accepted..

Me neither. Unless I'm bowhunting.

I would not hesitate to use it with a good bullet. Anything from a 85gr Barnes X to a 100gr Nosler Partition will kill it every time in a blind situation, IF the hunter is a half decent shot.
Most of my clients shoot their leopards with a .30 caliber of some sort, (06 being the most prevalent), as this is what I normally reccommend. But I will allow a hunter to take a cat out of a blind with a .243 Win anyday of the week, and twice on Sundays.

I'd agree with that. .243 would take the animal from a blind without any problems at all if the bullet is put in the right place and any calibre in the wrong place is gonna cause problems anyway. Sure I'd prefer the client to shoot a .30+ but if I had to choose between a client shooting a .243 well or a .30+ badly, I'd choose the .243.

If I had choice of bullet, my favourites would be Woodleigh SP, Nosler partition or a handloaded Winchester Silvertip loaded to the correct velocity. (I don't like the factory loaded silvertips as they're usually a bit on the fast side and don't perform so well)

Don't know about twice on Sundays though, as that'd be verging on being greedy.

"I'd agree with that. .243 would take the animal from a blind without any problems at all if the bullet is put in the right place and any calibre in the wrong place is gonna cause problems anyway."

Right place and wrong place are the key words. How many PHs and guides have seen a bullet, any bullet put into the wrong place? It might have been because animal moved at the last instant, or poor shooting, or just about any excuse.

Personally, if I was going to put a bullet into the wrong place, however I managed to do it, on a leopard, lion, cape bufflo, or anything that bites, I would much rather the bullet in the wrong place be a .375 or .416 or .458 or something along those lines.

Over the years, in Africa and other places as well, two that come to mind are India and tigers and Alaska and big bears, there have been many bullets put into the wrong place on these large animals.

Whether it was shooter error, or any reason, it has happened, and people have been killed because of it.

How many have ever heard of a PH following up a wounded bufflo, lion, leopard, rhino, or anything else with a .243?

Why send a boy to do a man's job?

Neither Karl nor I suggested using a .243 for a follow up and in case you didn't know, both of us are PHs with our own seperate safari companies.

The point was that assuming correct bullet placement, a .243 is perfectly capable of killing a Leopard from a blind without any problems.

I love guys that always want to use too little a gun. Come on have some guts use a 17 HRM single shot.

This thread is getting silly.

Since you can only bring two rifles, and since most people shooting leopard are shooting other game as well, most likely buffalo, why bring a .243 as the second rifle? Are you going to shoot large plains game with a .243? Or are you going to shoot your plains game with a buffalo rifle?

I don't buy the "proper shot placement" argument either. You can kill a cape buffalo with a 30-06 with "proper shot placement." There are reasons why it's illegal, though.

BTW: Shooting leopard with a .243 is illegal, at least in Zim.

I didn't say .243 would be my calibre of choice for Leopard, I just said I'd consider it an acceptable calibe. - Personally, I'd prefer a .30 of some sort....... but I'm not the client who's paying for the trip and believe me, pretty much every client has his own idea of favourite calibre (and indeed bullet). Some of those ideas are good and some not so good, but as I said, it's not my money. As long as it's legal it's up to the client to use whatever he likes.

Indy,

Hope you won't me correcting you in a few things. Although there may be the odd exception, I can't off the top of my head, think of an African country that restricts hunters to only two rifles per hunter. SA restricts you to no two calibres the same and some airlines retrict you to no more than two rifles per case, but that's all. Secondly, I don't know where you get the idea most people who hunt Leopard also hunt Buffalo. - I'm unaware of any published figures that state that and from my personal experience, I'd say it isn't necessarily so.

Moving on, you seem to intimate that one shouldn't shoot PG with a Buff rifle. The most popular calibre in Africa by a mile is the .375 H&H and that calibre has probably killed more Buffalo and PG in Africa than all the other calibres put together.

And believe me, if there's one single deciding factor in successful or unsuccessful hunting, it's shot placement.

Oh and BTW, I don't have figures for every African country to hand, but I'd reckon .243 is legal for Leopard in more African countries than it's illegal.

Hope you don't mind my correcting you on those points.