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Well I see that the people of Mississippi have voted to keep the confederate battle flag as part of their state flag. I also see that the professional whiners are still whining about it.<P>Personally, I an happy to see at least one state not bow down to political correctness and keep their heritage.<P>Any Mississippi boys here like to comment or any body else for that matter.<P>BCR

It was nice to see the folks from Mississippi stand up to the pressure and vote to keep the flag as it is. I noticed that even in predominantly black districts, the vote was split almost 50/50. You would think that fact alone would send a message. It appears, however, that the vote won�t count for much. The NAACP is already calling for a boycott. You know what that means. The confederate flag WILL eventually be removed. It is only a matter of time before the Hollyweird crowd jumps on the bandwagon, and shortly thereafter the politicians in Mississippi will have to cave in to the pressure. <P>Reminds me, to some degree, of a referendum vote we had here a few years back. It seems the powers that be wanted to find out if the general population of a few counties in SW PA were interested in spending tax dollars to fund two new sports stadiums. The vote was overwhelmingly NO. Today, there are two brand new state funded stadiums sitting in Pittsburgh. If they don't care what we think, why do they even ask!<BR><P>------------------<BR>Stush

BCR- I am afraid Stush is right. It will be only a temporary victory. But it is good to see the people of Mississippi wake up and get out to vote. This will only bring more outside attention to the issue. We must enjoy our little victories while we can. The legislature will find some reason for changing it sooner or later. Bob

Ranger:<P>I'm not from Mississippi and I've only been there once. Nice place. But just the same I'm glad to see that someone is sticking to their guns. The confederate battle flag symbolizes different things to different people. To me it symbolizes freedom and defiance of federal slavery. I'm glad to see that Mississippians are a people that won't be subjugated. A people that prefers to stand up on their hind legs, defy the federalies and proclaim freedom as their goal. <P>When I was a child I was taught that the Civil War was fought to eliminate slavery.<P>Later I learned that it was really a clash of cultures and it was fought to determine if the industrialized north would dominate the agricultural south. The issue of slavery was just an issue to get common folks to fight for the power brokers.<P>Now that I am even older I have learned that the Civil War really was fought over slavery. It was determined that one man cannot enslave another. But it also determined that the federal government can enslave the whole country. Because they have the power to do it.<P>I hope that Mississippi maintains their insistence on freedom and continues to be a beacon for the rest of us.<P>Don't get me wrong. I am a patriot, ex-marine and Viet Nam veteran. I fought for my country and against opression. I continue to do so. But I did not fight for the federal government. <P>Government is a necessary evil. ALL GOVERNMENT IS BAD. Our government is simply the least bad. The best of a bad lot. And it can be improved a lot. The issue of states rights, and therefore the rights of the common man, needs to be revived. <P>KC<BR>

I guess I am on the opposite side of the fence here from the majority on this one.<P>Although I am white and extremely proud of my Southern heritage, I can understand why blacks do not like the CSA battle flag being displayed and, considering the negative impact both financially and from a public realtions POV, just do not consider it to be a viable issue. Why continue to fight a 140 year old war that almost everyone alive would concede that the South is better off for losing, from today's perspective? <P>I'm not for overturning the results of yesterday's election, like the Gore-Lieberman crew, but IMO Southerners and Mississippi should let go of the past and come into the 21st century, nor fight to preserve 19th century non-issues. Joking and kidding around about Yankees and Southerners is a long tradition which I continue, but somehow, it loses some of its funny when the topic of slavery is in the mix. And for black Americans, it always is. Just my opinion.

Now that I've started this I can't delete my posts, but at least can edit it.<P>Too many issues on both sides, too many good arguments pro and con.<P>I was born and raised a Southerner. Slept with a 3X5 foot Confederate battle flag on the wall over my bed for the best part of my juvenile and adolescent life. But I tend to agree with one point IIFID made - the war ended 136 years ago. It's time to quit basing 1/4 of the country's self image on a terrible schism that should have been mended long ago. Too many good people still alienating themselves from each other.<P>Remember the past but don't dwell there. Remember where you've been, but keep your eyes and hopes pointed toward the future.<P>Sorry, that's lame, but a litle better than my original post.<p>[This message has been edited by Jim in Idaho (edited April 19, 2001).]

Born on Lee's birthday in Forrest's old headquarters, and distant cousin to Mrs Jefferson Davis (Varina Howell of Mississippi) I couldn't deny being a Southerner if I wanted to. For generations, my twig of the family has been for full rights for the blacks among us. Contradiction? Never saw it that way.<P>What I see still very active is something that irritated Southerners from before the Civil War, continuing today without any discernible fading � the supercilious, moralistic nagging coming from (mainly) Massachusetts, in particular Boston, the epicenter of the slave trade. The merchants, their ships, their captains weren't from the South, and their profits from that nefarious industry didn't build anything in the South. It rang false then, and it rings false now, to be scolded repeatedly by an equal partner in that criminal enterprise.<P>Can you think of a greater, more offensive regional hypocrisy?<P>Add to that the long memory of where the war was fought, and the devastation wrought there during and after the actual combat, and it's even easier to see why some today would feel offended that the "side" that so horribly brutalized the other then, now says "Why don't you leave all that in the past?"<P>I don't feel any special pride in being Southern-born and -reared. Had no choice in the matter. Nor do I feel the least shame for it. Had no part in what preceded me, good or bad. But I understand why some bristle at being scolded for what they aren't guilty of.

How about heritage, or forfathers that died for that flag? How about our American flag, want to change it? Our families lost many fathers,brothers, husbands, fighting for this country, what would you say to changing our flag to host a circle with a chicken print in it. How long has the Mississippi flag waved as it is with no problems. Sounds like someone has nothing to do, or perhaps they have interest in a flag making company. <BR>-- no

I don't want to re-fight the war, boys. I just wanted to know what you think of a state and its people standing up for them selves and not bowing to minority group pressure.<BR>Lord knows if any minority has a gripe against the symbol of the United States because of the way they were treated it is the Indians. Woops, excuse me, native Americans. Yet I don't hear any big outcry to replace the stripes with a buffalo or something. Intrestingy enough last Confederate commander to surrender was Gen. Stand Watie, a Cherokee on June 23, 1865.<BR>BCR

Reminds me of Vicksburgs reply to a demand for surrender, durring the "Unpleasantness".<BR>"The people of Mississippi, do not know how, and refuse to learn, the meaning of the word surrender!<BR>Lets hope it stays that way.<BR>7mmbuster<BR>Trus in God and Fear Nothing

Good for the folks of Mississippi! Want to bet what will be on the Rosie show tommorow? Rick

As you can see, I'm from Mississippi and watching this whole thing transpire has been quite a lesson in civics. A little background on the events that led up to the flag vote. A few years ago the NAACP filed a lawsuit challenging the Miss. state flag claiming it was offensive to minorities. The case was thrown out of court but in the process of researching the matter it came out that the flag, which was adopted in 1894, had not been "re-adopted" when the state's constitution was updated in the early 1900's, therefore the state didn't have an official flag anymore even though the 1894 flag had been flown ever since. The failure to re-adopt the flag was a legislative oversight when the constitution was updated and no one really knew it had happened, it just fell through the cracks. After it came to light that we had no official flag this opened the door to the NAACP mounting a massive campaign to adopt a new state flag. They took their cause to the legislature and governor and I'd like to say that our legislators had the backbone to say no to them but that really wasn't the case. The congress-critters and governor were too afraid of the political fallout from either the NAACP if they didn't change the flag or the majority of the citizens who would vote them out of office if they did change it. The government was between a rock and a hard place so they did what politicians do: they punted. The governor convened a panel to design a new flag then they called an election to let the people vote on it. The outcome, 65% for the old flag, 35% for the new flag. The legislators saw the politicans that got bounced from office in south carolina and georgia and didn't want the same happening to them.<P>Everyone has their own pet theories about why the old flag was overwhelmingly retained so here's mine. I think the people of this state are tired of constantly getting beaten up by fringe groups who are trying to inflate issues for their own gain. Like many others in this state and others, I am the descendant of a confererate soldier and get tired of hearing that my forefathers were evil people because they fought for the south. We tend to resent the inferrance that we should be ashamed of our forefathers and therefore we should remove all traces of history. It has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with honoring the ones that have come before us. The arguement that we should remove the confederate battle flag because the KKK has adopted it as their own makes as much sense as saying you shouldn't drive a volkswagen because the nazi's also drove them. Another arguement that was often touted was the possibility that mississippi's economy could be hurt because businesses wouldn't want to do business here with the current flag. I'm all for business, but business shouldn't be the only factor considered when deciding the path your state will take, if it was then there would be no environmental laws or workplace regulations.<P>One thing that you seldom see mentioned in the papers is the enormous amount of outside money that came pouring into the state to the support the groups trying to remove the old flag. These groups were certainly well funded and I think the latest figures show that they outspent the flag defenders 6 to 1, and still lost 35% to 65%. Our main daily paper, the Clarion-Ledger set a new low standard with their constant editorializing to change the flag. Not only were the editorials all one sided, but they also slanted all their feature stories on the flag vote to paint anyone in support of the old flag as an ignorant redneck. Any thought of journalistic integrity was completely tossed out the window by this newspaper in the last couple of months, but what should you expect from a paper owned by Gannett news services, one of the most liberal publishing outfits in the country.<P>As one poster above pointed out, this is more than likely just the start of the attacks by these groups. They're not going to stop until they get their way and history says they probably will win in the long run. There is one way to insure that they're not able to do it, however. A lawyer in Tunica, MS, has gathered enough votes on a petition to get a constitutional amendment placed on the ballot for the next election. This amendment would require a two thirds vote in order to ever change the flag in the future. Given the overwhelming support for the current flag during the special election, I'd say this amendment will be a shoo-in if it's on the ballot in the next general election. Meanwhile, I invite all of ya'll to come down and visit our great state.<p>[This message has been edited by Crow hunter (edited April 19, 2001).]

They will take away Mississippi's flag eventually. I am glad that the folks down there had a temporary victory, but I realize that it is only temporary. The way politicians are throwning the idea of serving the PEOPLE out, it won't lsat too long. Nothing will. Guns won't if we fail to let the politicans know that we are against it, and that their political party(parties) will not survive if they take the guns. Power to Mississippi!

Go Mississippi<P>[This message has been edited by Ruttin (edited April 19, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Ruttin (edited April 19, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ruttin:<BR><B>Hey That flag was or any flag like it was<BR>a voice to the Goverment to remind them that<BR>we are a free people and weren't afraid to<BR>stand up for our freedom even against them.<BR>But they'll take it along with whatever else<BR>they want sooner or later.<BR> Whats the next bandwagon the NAACP is gonna <BR>jump on.Boy I hope it's not gun control.<BR> Ruttin</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> "WHEN THEY PRY MY COLD DEAD HANDS FROM IT"

well there has been alot of press on this issue i am not from the south i was born in california but my folks got me out before i got to screwed up and i was raised in nebraska but my opinion on this issue is WAY TO GO PEOPLE IN MISSISSIPPI i am glad they voted the way they did to me the flag will always represent heritage and history which no one should be ashamed of if i had any descendants who fought for the south i would feel great pride i am what you would call a southern sympathiser and always will be. considering my beliefs i find it ironic that i was born on the same day as the man who shot abraham lincoln. i do not want to desecrate the south by typing that i just find it facsinating. i will finish now sorry for being so long winded.

Congratulations to the people of Mississippi.<P>Is Jesse not there yet?<P>Im sure there will be a boycott of some kind if they havent threatened it already.<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://TheSouthernOutdoorsman.com" TARGET=_blank>TheSouthernOutdoorsman.com</A>

Interesting that the vote for and against the retention of the current state flag almost exactly mirrors the racial make up of the population of Mississippi, that is approximately 5/8 white and 3/8 black. <P>Just because the majority of the population and the voters supported the old flag does not make it right. Legal, yes, right, no. For a different example, we need look no futher than the OJ case, legally he is not guilty, but is that right? <P>As far as the heritage issue, any one that posts on this board is likely to have had, at the closest, a great grandfather that participated in the Civil War. And more likely great,great, or great x 3, And it is extremely unlikely that someone can look at you and discern this fact. <P>In contrast with that, anyone can look at a black person that lives in Mississippi and make a fairly high probability assumption that that person is descended from slaves. So, on the one hand, we have an argument for preserving an image to commemorate a heritage that includes slavery as a key factor in its history, on the other hand we have a group that is offended by that history and the images it invokes and can be identified by sight as most likely having been descended from the oppressed of that era. I would argue, obviously unsuccessfully in this forum or in Mississippi, that the sensibilities of the latter group should take precedence IN THIS CASE. This does not mean that I am liberal, far from it, just that continuing to gratuitously insult any ethnic group is a long term losing effort, counter productive to a strong united society, and serves no present day purpose to counterbalance the above negatives. And that is my final 2 cents worth on this topic.

If it flies it dies,<P>Just to clarify one point. 30% of the black population that voted in the election voted for the old flag, 30% of the white population voted for the replacement flag. Your inferrence from the first line of your last post that ALL blacks voted against the old flag and ALL whites voted for the old flag is completely incorrect. The fact that the percentile differences in the vote between the new and old flag mirrors the racial composition of the state of Mississippi despite the actual racial composition of the vote is a mere coincedence that I'm sure many will try to exploit in the future, I guess you were the first to do so.

Crow hunter, thanks for the explanation on the issue.<BR>Now something that wonders me is if it is a slavery issue then how come they are whooping and hollering about something that has been over in this country for 136 years yet I have not seen one of the J. Jacksons or Al Sharptons or that bunch raiseing a stink about the slave ship off the coast of west Africa. Reckon it could be because their own people are doing the slaving?<BR>BCR