Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Separate optics thread for E

To quote Ken Howell from some time back, "Class shows... unfortunately crass also shows."

Muley stalker



BTW, I don't remember the other run-ins you mention



Think back to about jan 4 where you and I had a run in in the big game forum.You could have taken your own advice and simply chose the ignore button then as well but you chose to involve yourself and got into a very heated confrontation with 10 point as a result.You ended up accusing him of being a racist and white supremacist after he called you a liberal.Does that refresh your memory?

Sitka blacktail



You were the one that attacked me over the statement that another person posted in the same threads that I just referenced to muley stalker.



After checking back to those older threads and comparing the usernames it comes as a strange coincidence that those that are quickest to condemn me in this thread were also on opposite sides with me in those older threads.Coincidence perhaps or is it a case of an opportunity to take a shot at someone that you just don't agree with?Does that sound familiar?

Gents,
If the "crass" comment was meant for me, so be it. That is your call. I have no agenda here. As I do in life, on these pages I "listen" more than I "speak". On this subject some would argue not enough. As with most folks here, I'm sure E is a great guy and I mean no disrespect to him nor is my intention to attack him. Maybe I should show more patience and understanding, and disregard E's foibles. Maybe folks should have done the same for logcutter. Oh, thats right, he was "attacking" gun writers. That is different. C'mon guys, call it like it is. E often sounds like a broken record. Does that make him a bad guy or wrong? No. It makes him a pain to listen to and sometimes makes it appear as if he is sucking up. OK, so you use "ignore".
The point of my rambling is this; For my own benefit/knowledge regarding guns/optics I would prefer discussions to be based on personal experience and not to resemble "Ford / Chevy" debates. I appreciate your time.
Hank

Heb330-I believe that comment was actually directed at me since as I mentioned Sitka blacktail ,muley stalker and myself have had prevous run ins.

FWIW, my post was not aimed at anyone. We can agree we disagree at times and move on. I've had a few smartass answers here and I try to move on. Sometimes I fail and that's my fault. E has done nothing to me and is not wrong to have his own opinion.

Gents,
Not all of us agree with E most of the time. Hell, I disagree with E most of the time. But this is not the subject of this thread. I won�t post on this thread if E is wrong or right. This is irrelevant to this thread.

The point to take home out of this thread is the intolerance to personal attacks of this type. I believe everyone is on the same page on this one. I thing Stubble agrees with this. I think he started this topic as a funny/frustrated thread. Apparently it didn�t come out this way. Call it a bad humor, call if unfortunate use of words, call it whatever you want. Now you take this bad joke opportunity and started tainting Stubble with similar personal and highly polarizing comments and characteristics. You could express your disagreement with such posts all you want. Once getting personal, then you do exactly what in your own thread call in un-classy. Stubble admits he started this thread to be funny. Bad humor maybe. Don�t choose to ignore that and taint Stubble with personal comments, no humor intended .... Now are you being classy yourself or you are taken opportunistic shots? People do missteps. You choose to kick him while he is "down". Give it a rest!!!
Aic

Aicman-You are very right in your accessment of what has happened here.I started this thread to add a littlle humor and perhaps I am a little tired of hearing the same old broken record.Yes I could have chosen to ignore E but then he would go on passing unsubstanciated opinions to inexperienced people that would accept them as fact because they simply don't know any better.I try to pass on actual first hand experiences so people can make up their own minds based on real experience as I believe that this type of information is of much more use than second hand information and heresay.We can all learn from new information and many of us can sort the real data from the heresay but unfortunately new or inexperienced people often can't ,so passing heresay on to them is doing more harm than good.Some of the regular readers that know E very well found this thread humorous as intended but some were not familiar with E and took it as a personal attack because they did not know how it was intended.Still others took this as an opportunity to take a shot at myself which I am sure stems more from the fact that we just don't get along since our run ins of about a month ago than to coincidence.In short if I had anticipated that people would get so worked up I would not have posted this thread at all.Unfortunately though people don't always respond as anticipated and once things get emotional ,they quickly get out of hand.

Stubble, I seem to remember that deal with 10point as being between he and I. I try not to dwell on past disagreements, especially when amends have been made. Just for the record, I believe that is one of the first spats I have ever had with the guy despite having "known" him via these forums for probably 6 or more years.

Here is my weakness: I have been communicating with many of these people, including E, for longer than I care to admit. Probably 8 years or longer in certain cases. When someone fairly "new" comes along acting like their [bleep] don't stink and starts slamming my friends, I react. Same as on the "gun writers" thread. Some of these guys, I've known for some time and have a great deal of respect for.

You can't possibly think we believe that you started this thread in jest. Your open criticism of E is too extensive.

For future reference, it goes a lot further around here if you simply state your opinion rather than your opinion + why everyone else who disagrees is wrong.

Anyway, I'll take the first step towards a truce. I apologize for my less than civil reaction to your words that I may have misinterpreted.

Ah, now were finaly getting somewhere.

Muley Stalker, for your penance you must send me 10lbs of fresh elk backstraps and your sins will be forgiven <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Muley stalker -Actually you and I had a run in as well on those threads though not nearly as serious as the one between you and 10 point. That is now beside the point though, since this whole thread has gotten out of hand and needs to end.This in no way changes my veiws about first hand experience vs heresay but to put an end to this thread I do apologize to all of those people that were offended by the way it was presented.

Stubble,

I guess you and I have very different concepts of humor.

Just because you put a little smiley face on the topic line doesn't make it funny.

Actually, this thread has given me reason to ponder a bit...

I've decided I won't post on threads that get into the personal side. I'll just let them go by and try to concetrate on the posts that are actually dealing with topics that I care about....

Thanks for the motivation.

AJ, I went for a hike from the house this afternoon and spotted a large herd of elk about a thousand yards off, bedded in some timber (with my POS 10x Leicas that are too much magnification to hold still <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). I couldn't help but sit there and lick my lips thinkin' I'm damn near out of backstraps and the tenderloins are long gone (grin). Mmmmmmmmmmm!

If we are going to draw a line in the sand here, put me on E's side. I don't agree with everything he says but crud, I don't even agree with everything I say............... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



Now I do agree with Jim. It is important to cite your sources. All of us have some experience, none of us have all experience. I am much more likely to listen to a guy who tells me where his info is coming from--personal or otherwise--than a guy who just lays it out with no qualifiers.



I too have been posting with these guys for a long time--over 7 years. I am somewhat protective of these guys. I will defend them when unjustly mocked, like in this thread--claimed intentions notwithstanding.



What often happens here is someone will start an emotional attack on a particular product, and strongly imply that anyone who uses said product is an idiot. It is this type of thread that many of us here respond to. We are not hung up on Rem/Leupold/McMillan, but we will defend those things when they are attacked.



Truth be told, most of us "regulars" don't really care what you like to use. Make your choice and be happy. However, be man enough to let the other guy like his chocies as well.



Sermon over. Must be the Entex..............



Blaine

E IS RIGHT ! On the subject of hunting optics . Don't know about anything else .

Don't always agree with E. And probably have been a few times less civil than he is about such. But no, don't agree with the tone of the thread. E has as much right to post as anyone. If you don't like reading him, then don't. There are some here I don't read. Some I think highly of, and sometimes trying to discuss something by explaining myself, or asking others to explain helps me figure something out I wouldn't on my own.

I think E is a positive contributor to this forum and I support his opinions as I do opinions from everyone else! Thumbs up to E!

Another thumbs up. Thanks E. for the time you spend answering and explaining things to folks like me and thanks for your always civil and gentlemanly manner.

John F. in Maryland

It's threads like this that make me wonder why I even bother to visit and post on forums. Now I feel apprehensive about posting an opinion suggestion, or an idea. Just becasue this kind of thread has not come up before in regard to other posters does not mean all the guys writing here don't have similiar feelings on other visitors.

I'm stunned that a difference of opinion can lead to such a huge debate over somebody's written text here. This was suppose to be fun and now it's causing all this stress for several people.

There is an ignore button, Don't know how it works, never used it(yet). There is also the ability to just blow over what you don't like and move on. Sometimes thats hard to do when comments seem personally directed. Just remember that the internet way of communication although powerful may be the most pathetic means of actually getting a point across that there is today.

I know for myself I have a moment here and there through my day to post something. and many times I have a 2 year old sitting on my lap likr right now. He is wanting to help me type and I'm trying to think at the same time. Not every one sits in a quiet room with a grammer and spell check editor on hand for help. Not everything written by one person is understood in the exact context intended by the next person.

Cut people some slack here when you read a post. It's not as easy to put thoughts and feeling in writing as it is to sit next to each other in a truck on a long dirve or around a campfire at night. Expressions and gestures are always missing from these posts.

I know amny of you writing here and have enjoyed lots of posts by all. Hwoever this gets us nothing but stressed out and angry with each other. Put it behind you and move on.

Most important don't let the seemingly thoughtless comments by another poster put you off, it may not have been intended as you read it.

jj,

...well said...