Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Ex Senator Bob kerry

E4E... I agree with you that we all contributed something one way or the other,<BR>be it taxes, military service or whatever.<P>I hold Vets in high reguard, reguardless of what they did in the service, but, let me say this, its one thing to get a paper cut or sit on your arse comanding troops and it damn sure is another thing when you are the one taking the fire. We all contribute, but some pay a greater price.<P>Beleave me, I have no respect for any REMF's that spout what they know or what they think they know about combat.<P>Nuff Said.<P>You have a great day dude <P><BR>

One last thing.JayH,<BR>Young and alone,andyour life depends on those that have become your family,only those folks matter,ecause your life depends on it and god help the friggin moron that touches a hair on their head.Better to be tried in the rear,than dead in the boonies,with honor lost and letters written home to the parents and loved ones of those you gave your word to give your life for.<BR>I suspect sir that you are the wannabe here,<BR>Small unit mentality escapes you.<BR>In MR.Kerrys position as PC of this pack of wolves,if he did what he is accused of,he did right.<BR>You would do the same if you had the obligations and sense of ONE.<BR>E4E<BR>

E4E, you don't wanna get under my skin boy.<P>Yea, I was a wannabe. Now I wannabe left alone by stupid people that think they know it all and write this tear jerking crap.

Oh this would be fun, can I sell tickets?<P>Opening odds, I'm taking E4E laying 4/1. <P>LOL.

It's too bad that thread was pushed into absurdity by a troll. It really was a good topic that warranted serious discussion. No one believes targeting non-combatant civilians is proper, but what about civilian "combatants"--ie, collaboraters, spies, informants, saboteurs, etc. Anytime a civilan does the above, he/she becomes a combatant and fair game. In Vietnam it got very fuzzy. What do you do when the VC strap explosives on a 10 yr old's back and sends him into a bunch of GIs? Crud, many of the VC WERE children. The big questions in my mind: <P>- Did Kerry KNOW he was killing non-combatant civilians?<BR>- Were these civilians truly non-combatants?<BR>- Did these civilians willingly assit the VC?<BR>- Was there any danger to Kerry's team if they didn't shoot those civilians?<P>War is always confusing. It's never the clear-cut "us vs them" we all expect to see. My critera is this--if a soldier does his best to target only combatants, that's all we can ask. As tragic as it is, some collateral damage is acceptable. We in the US Military try our best to minimize civilian causalties, but we fully understand there will always be some. War is hell. War is terrible, but it is not the most terrible thing.<P>Blaine <P>

'DIES,you opened it at 4 to 1,it will be 10 to 1 before the ink is dry,and where you gonna lay off the imbalance? Maybe ROSIE will back her little boy.grin.

Gene:<P>Thanks for the advice, but I've got a little gamble in me. I'll just have to fade all the action on Rosie's pick. I feel fairly safe. LOL

Jay,<BR>I refuse to turn this into an insulting diatribe towards you personally.<BR>Nice bait though.<BR>Mr.Kerry did what he did,none of us were there,but he did in in our stead.<BR>Right and wrong depends on who's looking at it.<BR>He and his team came out alive.He did his job as a PC properly in my view.<BR>If what he did was wrong,so was what we did in the Gulf using bombs and missles that occaisionally took out civillians.<BR>If you have the background you claim,you know this,and understand.<BR>It is interesting though,that you wish to seek personal argument instead of topical debate on this subject.<BR>E4E

I thought that after "Shooters" we all agreed that the freedom of speech deserves to be respected and un-restricted. That if someone wants to do nothing but insult, that the best course of action was just to ignore. And now just 6 months later were already asking the webmaster to step in, and delete post. Which is why I thought we all left "Shooters".<P>Just a friendly reminder.<P>Phil

Phil:<P>We may not agree on Economics 101, but we are together on the larger issues, Freedom of Speech and the 2nd Amendment. I strongly second your post. CAT

JayH- What the heck is a 91A10? I was not in personnel so I must confess I don't know each MOS.<P>Rabid<P>------------------<BR>God, Family, Country.

A 91A10 is a medical specialist/combat medic who is an E4 or below and has no other skill identifiers (jump q'd, ranger, languages, etc). It is a basic EMT course with some field medicine thrown in. It is a very basic MOS. However in a combat environment the basic medical skills really come in handy.

Whether you were there or not, whether you smoked pot but didn't inhale while protest marching in London, what it comes down to is: If Kerry and his men did what is alledged by someone who was there and confirmed by witnesses, i.e. willfully and knowingly killed innocent women and children at point blank range without a justifiable reason, that would seem to be a problem, and behaviour less than we would expect from carefully trained, elite navy seals. If Mr. Kerry is worthy of the Congressional Medal of Honor, he ought to be more forthecoming than he has been. Just a thought. Aedes

If it Flies it Dies: Agree, disagree, as far as I'm concerned it's all just friendly chit-chat. And who knows, once in awhile maybe something good will become of the discussion. I try not to get too set, or opinionated, but I'm human.<P>Wishing you a good season, and maybe if your free, will meet at the Slam.<P>Phil

Phil:<P>You're HUMAN! Now you tell me. No wonder we have a failure to communicate. Greetings from....screehhhhhcccchhc,aaaaaakklmm,,mmmlk;m,.,m,m.,mop9punklnm,.,

Well my 18 B shure trumps his claim to fame. I held this MOS for 6 1/2 years in the 5th SFGA on an Alpha team. If he wants to start calling men boys and thinks he is king $hit come on down and party with the real deal!<P>"De Opresso Liber"<P>------------------<BR><B>"Old dogs never die, we just get meaner!"</B>

Thanks Newguy, I knew about the 10 level and ID's, just wasn't sure about the MOS part. <P>Thanks,<BR>Mike<P><P>------------------<BR>God, Family, Country.

A most interesting thread,with a little conflicting opinion.<P>I'm no Judge,nor jury and wasn't there,so can't criticize the decisions that were made. Kerry served with in an Elite outfit(understatement),in a hostile environment. That something happened that wasn't "pretty" was inevitable,that it will happen again,just as sure. Nobody likes to know the truth of what happens,in the heat of battle. Some choose to pretend such things never happen,others try to take it in stride(as impossible as that may sound),others want to get all ruffled up and point fingers.<P>I'm of the opinion,that the man did what he thought to be right,at that time. I can't begin to speculate,as to what REALLY went down. In the scheme of things,I believe it was within the "rules" of War(whatever that might be).<P>Kerry's downfall,was his becoming a public figure,that worked against him(as it does most). Once you become that,you are fair game,for the media that tend to portray things as they SEE it. <P>So sticks and stones,can be cast about,without changing anything that unfolded. I much respect Kerry's service and accomplishments. That he was involved in that "War" and got his hands dirty,only raises my estimation of him. <P>The guy served,did it as best as he knew how and was lucky enough to survive. So rather than cast hard feelings for Kerry,energy should be channeled towards THANKING those,that were called to serve,especially for those that weren't able to come home. <P>I couldn't comment on his rating the accomodations,as I haven't all the transcripts,regarding the facts. I think he did good,in a bad situation. I applaud his efforts and those who also served,but are of lesser reknown.........

mtgoat,<BR>Hows come you Doggies get numbers AND letters in your MOS?All us Jarheads get is 4 numbers like 0311,0844,2111,etc. and when ya get unlucky enough to get a second or third MOS,they just hyphenate untill you have a series of numbers all over your DD214.<BR>Hell most Jarheads either just say "Grunt" or "support" to keep things simple,meanwhile the poor Navy Corpsmen don't know what the hell they are <BR>Semper Fi Mac!<BR>E4E

Ummmm......the brass ran multiple tests and found that the vast majority of Marines could not handle more than 4 numbers at a time. LOL (and ducking)