Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Charges

A few questions about shooting in self defense. If you have to shoot an animal that you were not hunting but charges out of the blue what is done with the animal? Let's use several examples such as the cpecies is on your license but is a smaller speciman than one you would shoot normally. Let's say a bull with small ivory charges and you have to kill in self defense ane in one case you have no elephant license, one you have a tuskless permit and another you have the permit for one elephant but were tracking a 100 lber when this guy charged. In the last case can you still hunt the big guy or are you done. Just something I always wondered about.

I have a feeling that if you have a license good for that animal you are done whether you like it or not.

I'd have to say that if I successfully stopped a no BS really charging DG critter, no matter it's size, it would be a prized trophy, and I'd be happy to punch my tag!

Jeff

Haven't you read Peter Hathaway Capstick?

The easiest way to stop a charging elep;hant is to take away his credit card.

pacercars, that depends in which country and even in which area you are hunting. In the case of elephants, most of them are on government land in Namibia, and not on private land, so you would get away with a report on why such an animal was shot in self defence, and still use your trophy hunting permit to hunt one that you can take home. Let's take leopard on private land as another example of how it will likely work on private land. Say you chase a cat with dogs, corner/ tree it, and in the process of making your mind up if you want it as a trophy, it sees you and, ignoring the dogs, comes for you. Now if you shoot it, at it, or even if your PH end up having to kill it, it is likely that that will be your trophy, as the private land owner will want his money. This might sound skew, as you were chasing that cat with the intention of killing it, so let's take another example: this time a buffalo on private land in RSA. If you or your PH shoots a buff on private land in self defence, one of you better have the kite or the insurace, as most land-owners will want payment, so irrespective of if you take it as your trophy or not, it has to be paid.

As Karl quite rightly says, every country and in some countries, every province, has it's own set of game laws.

In Tanzania the legal situation is that the PH and/or game scout may shoot any animal in protection of human life but none of the four game acts (2x in English and 2x in Ki-Swahili) mention a client being permitted to do so.

If the PH or Game Scout does so, they have to be able to prove absolute justification for the act and if they (In reality the PH carries the can and the GS walks away) can't the penalty is a fine of 3 times the trophy fee and under those circumstances the trophy is taken by the game dept.

If a client shoots an animal that isn't listed on his licence, whether in protection of human life or otherwise, his best course of action albeit not strictly kosher, would be to organise a licence that does cover that animal and fly it in ASAP. - He'd almost certainly have to pay almost the entire cost of that extra hunt, so sure it'd be expensive, but it'd be a lot more comfortable than languishing in a Tanzanian prison cell until things got sorted out. If he shot an animal that was listed on his licence, the PH would have to write it onto his licence and assuming the trophy met the minimum standard, that would be the end of the matter. If the trophy didn't meet the minimum standard as stipulated in the game acts, or if the animal concerned were female or dependent young, the client would have to pay the trophy fee, plus two times the trophy fee and face possible confiscation of the trophy.

These game laws and penalties mat seem draconian but remember that without strict game laws, there'd be no game left.

I would not want to be in that position, I think I would just take the hit and hope I survived, it would beat being in a Tanzania or Zimbabwe jail...:) Even if you got away with it the paper work would be more than most could cope with and the cost prohibitive...

In Tanzania we had a juvenile ele "charge" the cruiser when we came around a corner in some thick stuff. I did not have elephant on my license. It had rained and we were slipping and sliding and not leaving the area as fast as I would have liked.
I was using a 470NE and I turned to face the ele. The PH was very clear, DO NOT SHOOT. The game scout was getting ready when we found some solid ground and escaped :eek

I'm not sure of "taking the hit and hoping you survived", would be the best choice. A lifetime in a wheelchair could be worse than death.

I would try to kill the animal and deal with the legalities later (same if I needed to shoot an intruder). As bad as a prison in Zim or Zambia or whereever could be, you can at least stick it out until you decide death is better and then exit that way.

Seems more decisive and empowering than just letting a ellie or buff have its way with you.

JMO

They are quite strict about defensive shooting. I would imagine that this was based on people shooting trophies when they were "charged" sic. Any animal that is killed in defense of life is the property of the host government unless you have a license for that species and it meets regulatory criteria for harvest. The game scout as government representative along with the PH make the decision about how to proceed in this situation. From a purely legal standpoint it would be better if the PH or game scout does the protective shooting. Visiting hunters are less likely to have the experience to determine when a charge is bluff or serious and warrenting defensive shooting. Reading lots of Africana pre safari certainly makes one quick on the defensive.

Buffhunter,
My post was with tongue in cheek, thus the funny faces.

In a real situation one does what he has to do, and then deals with the situation later, but you had better be correct in your choice are there will be hell to pay...If your right and you had no other choice then you will come out of it Ok, maybe with a fine and maybe not..Your game scout would be the determining factor I suppose, and even then he might like a bit of enticement. It is just not a good situation to be in and best left to the PH and staff to sort out as you the hunter make some big tracks to the bakkie....

I find myself having extremely negative views of authority when it comes to self defense. That can be anything from a human intruder in my home, a grizzly I stumble across feeding on an elk hunt or a surprised African DG animal. It's intellectually enraging to think a man could act in defense of himself and/or others only to find himself all but accused of a crime he must now prove he didn't commit. I don't consider it out of line to say "if you shot an elephant you shot an elephant, hunt over". That's unfortunate from a trophy standpoint but I get it. Start talking jail/fines etc and that's another thing entirely.

I once read the amount of harsh scrutiny one might undergo if killing a grizzly in SD in some places and pretty much decided I would be SORELY tempted to simply make certain the animal was indeed dispatched and leave the scene.

I absolutely recognize the management problems that can arise with a bunch of charging (wink, wink) animals being shot. At the same time I find myself utterly dismissive of any authority that would consider me in the wrong for defending myself. It's a conundrum.

I know your questions is serious. I understand that if you shoot an animal that is prohibited, there is a lot of paperwork at best. If it is not on your license, it may be put on your license as the easiest path home.

A friend went of a cow buffalo hunt because it was more affordable than a bull - like 25%. The pressure was still there. He was sneaking through the herd looking for a nice set of horns. But he was warned to carefully choose and follow the PH instructions. Once you choose to pull the trigger on what you believe to the proper animal, you are responsible. The ongoing "joke" was that if he screwed up and shot a bull instead of a cow - and didn't have the difference in cash - he'd be doing camp chores and washing dishes for about 40 yr.

His solution was to leopard crawl close enough to reach up an feel the plumbing before he backed off to make his shot (just kiddin')

I can easily outrun an Elephant charging me as he would be slipping and sliding in what I would leave behind.

Amen! And we do tend to kid our ways through how we might respond. In October we had a 3 day-old rhino calf come exploring and mom was not far behind with a completely different attitude. The PH had us move for the trees and freeze (to minimize our ability to be seen) while he persuaded the calf and mom onto a different route. It was a truly dangerous situation, but mom never crossed the line from concern to fear/rage. Later he was joking with me and said that a .22 was sufficient for that situation if it turned bad - he'd just shoot me in the foot.

IMO we philosophize as to how we might respond in certain urgent situations and such is good; however, when a real situation arises, it is all trained (or untrained) reaction and the outcome has little to do with our ability to think and anlayze. For example, most hunters envision themselves as taking the double 470NE and placing two quick/ accurate shots to end the affair. My experience says that accurately shooting a double (two triggers) requires dozens of shots in practice and under actual huntings surprise situations (quail, dove etc.). Without practice, one never finds the second trigger.

Some call this muscle memory - but muscles don't remember. It is really reaction training. Reading volumes of the accounts of the African great PHs, the typical reaction of the client in a truly emergent situation is to shoot into the ground or to fail to shoot at all from paralytic fear. Sounds absurd and I would never argue the prowess of another person, but most of us are naive about dangerous game. I had read that running from elephant and other large DG was useless. In spite of this, I remember thinking that by running and weaving around the thornbush, I would execute an exit - until one safari when I saw a big bull buf go on a straight line through what I had thought was impenetrable thorn. I just stood there dumbfounded for a moment and fortunately, he was exiting.

To the original post which is a great question, we need to make our plans and decisions to protect life and limb in advance, but the main job of the PH is safety - listen and follow instructions precisely. A lot of the old explorers died while learning about DG and small things like snakes, bilharzia, and about a hundred thousand other lethalities that Africa can slowly reveal to the novice.

"I find myself having extremely negative views of authority when it comes to self defense. That can be anything from a human intruder in my home, a grizzly I stumble across feeding on an elk hunt or a surprised African DG animal."

I agree with the negative views of authority. If you ever visit Holly Springs, Georgia, you had better hope that you never have to defend yourself against an intruder.

He was a relative, very drunk and high on drugs when he forced his way into my home and attacked me. I did get loose and by defending myself with a knife, I was able to avoid serious or fatal injury, but guess who went to jail for aggravated assualt?

If you ever have to act in self defense, you had best make sure the police officer or game ranger has enough sense to know what is self defense and what isn't. The mental acruity of the police in Holly Springs, Georgia has not developed enough to understand the difference that the intruder is the one who breaks in and tries to kill you, and that the person who fends off the intruder is the victum. The police in this area have it backward.

I actually don't believe the authorities in the most primitive parts of Africa are as under developed as the police in the area I live in.

Over the years, I've found that money talks loudly in Africa. Screams, actually. You'd likely spend a pile of it to get yourself out of a bad situation, but if you have enough, you likely wouldn't see a day in jail. That, of course, depends on the timely definition of "enough."

[quote=13579I actually don't believe the authorities in the most primitive parts of Africa are as under developed as the police in the area I live in. [/quote]

That would be true in my experience. When the game scout has chambered a round in his AK and is yelling "SHOOT, SHOOT" or has buckled and is running, you will not have a problem with a self defense claim.

And its a better than 50/50 chance he'll be telling you to shoot or running before you will think its necessary to stop the charge.

JPK