Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa North Fork Solid Performance

These are 450 grain .458 solids. The dull one was recovered after a Texas heart shot at a wounded and departing Cape Buffalo. It penetrated the length of the animal and broke a shoulder. compare this with the GSC solids from essentially the same shot that Shakari posted on page 8 or 9 of the .243 and leopards post.

Indy,

You don't say so, but I assume you're referring to the slight deformation on my GS Customs? - If so, the reason is that the GS Custom is made of pure copper and designed to deform rather than shatter as can happen to a harder bullet. Funnily enough, this came up on AR recently, and you can view the entire thread at the link below. Hope that helps.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1411043/m/853109569/p/1

Shakari,

Thanks. I was aware of that thread on AR. To me it's interesting that GSC says their bullets are supposed to deform slightly and to accomplish this they make them out of solid copper. North Fork also says that theirs are made out of solid copper. Why don't their solids deform? Maybe mine was a coincidence. Or perhaps it did not hit bone until it travelled about 6 feet through the soft stuff.

While not apparent from the photo I posted above, the bullet did deform very slightly. The small machining mark on the nose is gone. There is just a hint of a dishing in of the flat point, and a setback of the nose. One edge is very slightly rounded, perhaps from hitting bone.

Of course you can see that the driving bands were extruded by the rifling. In working up loads, I fired one 3-shot group of 1 inch at 100 yards with these bullets. My impression was that they were a littlemore accurate than 450 grain TSXs and the Barnes solids in 450 and 500 grain, though I did not shoot very many for groups.

My experience is limited to firing the North Forks into only three animals and this is the only bullet I recovered.

Solids are NOT supposed to deform! period! end of conversation. jorge

Indy,

I think Northfork have gone out of business and so I'd guess it's be pretty much impossible to get a definitive answer on the make up of their bullets, but looking at the pics, I'd say the two types of bullet are of different metals.

Jorge,

I'm sure Gerard would disagree with you.

I'm no fundi on the matter but do know that from my experience Gerard's bullets are the bees knees and heve never let me down.

However, I'll try to call him tomorrow and ask him to post his opinion on this.

I agree 110%

No experience with this here, but this might be of interest to those who aren't aware...

North Fork Bullets

They seem to be back in business...

I always make an effort to support local (or regional) businesses and normally shoot Speer (Idaho), Nosler (Oregon) and Oregon Trail Cast bullets... Guess I'll have to buy some North Forks now!

A mentor once said to me: "The pipe dream of what should be will always be tempered by the reality of what will be."

Fact is that I have never seen a make or type of solid that did not deform at some point. Given the choice of a solid that does not deform until it fails catastrophically, or a solid that deforms in a controlled manner but does not fail under any circumstance, I will take the latter any day.

The number of "undeformable" solids that have snapped in half or shattered can be seen frequently on many forums. These undeformable solids are not capable of dart stabilised penetration and often curve in their path through the animal or worse, tumble and fail to go deep. Performance assumes an element of luck and is variable.

It is conspicuous that no failure reports are seen where copper FN solids are used. All we see is rock solid, reliable, linear penetration, despite the controlled deformation. The worst deformation of a copper FN I have seen recently was this 380gr .416" FN. It shattered the femur of a going away Ele Bull and was recovered 36" deeper, having continued to penetrate in a straight line. This shows that, as long as the bullet is dart and/or shoulder stabilised, it continues in linear manner, does not tumble and remains reliable.


These FN solids were recovered from a variety of Ele, Buff and test media and, depending on impact speed, all deformed to some extent. None failed to do the job they were supposed to do reliably.

500gr .470 from Elephant.


540gr 500NE from Elephant (left) and unfired (right).


450gr .458 from test media 2450fps, 2000fps and unfired.


Shakari's 500gr 500Jeff bullets from two Cape Buff, both shot end to end. Except for some scratches, the right hand bullet is close to undeformed.


I love it when a plan comes together.

Damn, but you must be psychic....... you've saved me a phone call!

FWIW, Ive used and seen used many different types of solid and other bullets, but the best solids I've ever seen or used (BY FAR) in almost 30 years of hunting Africa are the GSC FNMS.

I should add that I almost feel I should apologise for the tatty state of my bullets with all the coating stuffed up etc. - It's not the Buffalo that did that or even anything wrong with the coating, it's that the bullets get loaded and unloaded and stuffed into pockets and bullet pouches so many times before they get used.

Let me also add what I find to be an interesting observation. Isn't it strange how choice of bullet, calibre and load are always so very personal to us hunters. If we were discussing pretty much anything else such as hats, cars, binos, boots or even women, we'd express our opinions with prefixes such as IMO or I truly believe etc.......... with bullets, calibres and loads, if anyone disagrees with one of us, they're wrong, just plain wrong.

Hopefully we're all hunters at heart and although (for example) Karl and I will never agree about bullets, I hope we can still manage to share a beer and/or a campfire without arguing.

Even if he is just plain wrong about bullets.

Shakari,

North Fork is indeed back in business. A new owner has bought the business and moved it several hundred miles. He has hired the founder, Mike Brady, as a consultant and is offering the same products.

Gerard,

I didn't know your solids were solid copper. What is the gray coating on them and what is its purpose?

Indy,
It is a coating we developed for protection of the throat of the rifle. It is part moly and part something else, requires no change in how you clean your rifle and does not build up, rust your barrel or do any of the things pure moly is accused of (unfairly) sometimes. It has only three purposes. It makes the rifle easier to clean, regardless of the shot string length, it cuts down on how fast a barrel fouls and gives some protection to the throat of the rifle. Coated bullets can be shot interchangably with uncoated bullets.

Indy,

Is that a new or an old Northfork in your picture? - and if it's a new one, do you know what metal they use?

I have been using NOrthfork and GS Customs flat nose solids, HP and cup points, since they went into business and have photographed many of them and sent them to Northfork, but not GS Customs however I have talked to Gerard and discussed and cussed his bullets with him..

My conclusion is that one is about as good as the other, they will both deform under harsh circumstances and will not under normal circumstances..Massive bone and in particular spine will deform any solid and I mean any solid, but hopefully to not much degree...

I have a supply of both (BTW Northfork is back and under new management).. and I use the one thats handyiest when I load up some solids because they are both excellent bullets and nothing else I have used compares to either of them..

My only complaint is Gerard doesn't make a cup point....

Those are "old" North Forks. My comment about them being pure copper came from their "new" web site. My impression (could be wrong) is that they intend to make the same old bullets, and thus the old ones and the new ones should be the same, if they've got the production down right.

OK shakari, I'll bite...

For the record- on the FN design (of GSC or others)- I believe the design is sound, it works very well, penetrate very well, but I also do believe there is no way in hell that an expanding bullet, be it a soft or a solid copper FN, will penetrate as well as a virtually undeformed solid, be that a Barnes FN, a Woodleigh, or any other simmelar design.
Gerhard states that he prefers them to deform as shown, above shattering. Now this is where me and Gerhard's main difference of opinion comes in- he believes in high velocities, I don't. If you slow down those brass bullets/ Woodleighs, they do NOT shatter. Hell, even if you use his relatively soft 500gr FN in a cartridge such as a .450 Rigby, they normally are slow enough not to deform. Which I prefer. Others don't. Velocity does not kill, period.
That is why I like the heavier bullets. Right, start the fire...

OK, mate, you light the fire, I'll get the beers!

I understand what you mean - but my personal opinion is that of all the solids I've used and seen used, the GSC is the one that impresses me the most.

BTW, I hope you realise I was pulling your leg about your opinion on bullets!

Hi Karel,


It is fact that FN designs with a large meplat truncated cone nose penetrates better than any similar speed, weight and caliber bullet with a curved ogive or truncated curved ogive. This has been proven in the field as well as experimentally, many times.

In practise and in the experiments above, the FNs expanded to a certain extent and the RN solids usually did not. I must also emphasize that I prefer deformation to shattering lest the impression be created that I prefer FN solids to deform period. Controlled deformation, when deformation is inevitable, brings good things. Improved stabilisation in the target, better reliability. If you would only try the 450gr FN in your 450 Rigby, you will see.



Why then use a 450 Rigby and not a 458 WM?. Or, for that matter, a 7x64 rather than a 7x57? 22-250 rather than a 223Rem?

Which is the better killing caliber with 180gr lead core bullets or with 160gr mono softs: 30-30 or 300 WM. Would you take an Eland with a 30-30 or would you opt for a 300?

Fear not, Karel, between Shakari and I we will drag you (kicking and screaming if it must) into the 21st century.


I know our age and combined size may make this difficult but we can only try.

Speed kills, baby, but you must have the proper bullet that can take it. The old adage of "slowing dwon" bullets to get better penetration was true when bullets were old technology, but today given bullets like Gerards & other good ones that hold together, the extra "knots" gives you far more penetration. jorge