Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The Passion of the Christ

My thoughts exactly. That would be a big "Oops" and I'm not a gambler. Although I am a Christian, I do confess to be "back slidden" (a technical term down South). But to me, how can one look at this world and every living creature in it and think it just happened from one microscopic atom or something. Yeah, Right!!!!!

Roads

hey bx roads, let's get you frontslidden. won't take nothin' but a little forgiving. all ya gotta do is ask from the heart. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

One�s religious beliefs are rather personal, but since we are on the subject, here�s my two cents. Or two shekels, whatever�

For about a real long time there was a whole bunch of people living around the eastern Mediterranean who basically lived their lives by �you hurt me then I hurt you back, I look out for me, and if you don�t look out for you then screw you.� That may have allowed a certain band of people to survive in a harsh environment and keep a cultural (and some would say racial) identity for about 5000 years. But it doesn�t seem to have brought much peace in their lives as we can see by the constant warring state it has brought the current residents.

Anyway, along about 2000 years ago this Jewish carpenter said, �ya know, why don�t you try being nice to each other? I mean, go out of your way to be nice. If someone asks you to carry their load a mile, carry it two miles. Forgive those who would hurt you. Be so doggone nice that if a fellow slugs you, just turn the other cheek.� He said a lot more, and there are those who make a living arguing the nuances of each syllable he said, but, being one who values the KISS principle very highly, I just boil it all down to �try a lot more love for each other and a lot less hate - be really nice to each other�.

Did this carpenter have some supernatural powers or links to a supernatural being, or was he just a political radical in the eyes of the political power brokers of the time? That's up to each person to figure out. You may or may not believe the mystical mumbo-jumbo or the trappings that have been hung on this guy�s name by a special group of society who happened to have been the major political power of Europe for 1000 years or so, and we know how messages tend to get, shall we say, �bent�, by political powers. But even with all of the ornamentation hung upon the original message and the incredibly hypocritical behavior of many of those people who professed to follow it, the gist of it is powerful enough to still shine through.

Do I believe that there is one and only one way to a reward after we step through that door that we all must eventually step through? Do I believe that Mr. Chin or Mr M�buta or Mr. Fayad will burn in some extra-dimensional fiery torment just because they happened to be born in a different part of the world where this carpenter�s name is not so revered? No I don�t � but from what I know it seems that almost every instance of the central revered religious/philosophical figure in their cultures basically said the same thing as this carpenter did, so I figure there must be something to this business of basically �being nice�.

What I truly believe about him in my heart is nobody�s business but mine. What you believe is your business and not mine to question. But the bottom line is that I think he had a really good message � �Be nice to each other�. I try to live my life like that as much as I possibly can. If there is some reward for that behavior after this mortal body breathes it�s last then that�s cool with me. If there is just blackness and oblivion, oh well, I can think of worse ways to have lived a life.

My bro got all the dedication and commitment as he is a minister in Montgomery. I must say I admire his dedication. Never drank beer, never cussed, never nothin. The boy has no vice....not even good lookin women (and yes he's married, to a good lookin girl at that) Everybodys got to have vice. So I had to make up for his shortcomings <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He says he prays for me though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> That said I am definitely a believer.

I will admit my problem is being board with church. I grew up in church and I'm talkin Sunday morning and night and Wednesday night. I'm just board with the same song and dance. Seems like I've heard every sermon and song. I can go to church and within one minute of the pasters sermon, I know what the next 30 minutes will be. I still believe in Jesus and God. I just cant get the church thing going again. If we could just come up with a way to a spruce it up a bit.....

bx: you can come to my church in b'ham: northpark baptist. down montgomery way, try vaughn forest. it's the same old message (it has to be or it ain't biblical, ya know), but the way it is presented at those two churches is way, way cool. music is contemporary and takes the roof off. i could go on, but you know the drill. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

sorry, jim in idaho, you've got only two choices, and neither of 'em is oblivion. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Jim:

A decent way to live and I applaud you for it.

However, to correct your impression that Jesus, as reported in Matthew was the originator of the "Golden Rule" concept, he was not. It is such a logical social contract concept that it is found in ALL major religions and most minor ones and probably all societies from time immemorial. Certainly it is a basic principal found in Judaism.

For instance, although this is not a religion, Socrates said, probably in 440 BC give or take a few year: "Do not do to others that which would anger you if others did it to you." Or another one I like, age unknown, but certainly not Christian influenced, from the Pima (native american) tribe, "Do not wrong or hate your neighbor. For it is not he who you wrong, but yourself."

IFID,

You are right. Jesus' message was not the Golden Rule, but about having a personal relationship with God. It is either true or it is flase. It's really rather simple and logical.

Jesus said he was the God. We have two choices, either he was or he wasn't. If he was, then he is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

If he wasn't God, we have two choices. Either he knew he wasn't God or he didn't know he wasn't God.

If he knew he wasn't God he was a liar of the most sadistic nature. He demanded unyeilding obedience from his followers, causing generations of suffering and death, when he knew it to be false.

If he didn't know he wasn't God, then he was insane. He thought he was God. Those kind of folks aren't the sharpest sticks in the bunch, certainly not the ones you'd base your life philosophy on.

Some like to point out all the good moral things he said, but like you pointed out, the Golden Rule was not a concept exclusive to Christianity, so he really wasn't giving anything new there. The signs and wonders, if you even believe they really happened, were done by others as well.

Taken on the whole, Jesus didn't really bring anything new to the table for the good of mankind--at least nothing worth the price he has caused so many to pay for his "un novel" ideas. So if he wasn't truly God, he was either a liar or a lunatic, certainly not just a good man and great moral teacher.

Having said all that, I too am not bothered by what other folks believe. Most folks base their beliefs on emotion and a sliding scale of personal acountability. IE, while they say things like are no absolutes and whatever you believe is okay, they sure as h--l act like there are absolutes is if they feel someone has wronged them! Of course, "being wronged" is not possible in a world of relativistic morals.............

I find few folks have really thought things through philosophically, and of thsoe who reject Christianity, very few have actually studied it in depth. I don't mean sitting in Sunday School and playing church, I mean a scholarly, full-blown, bias free, deeply analytical look at the history of the times, the philosophical context of the time, the philosophical ideas and logic about a God vs random meaningless chance, textual criticism, archaeology, scientific thought, etc.

Most folks are not that interested to take that hard of a look and then ask themselves the hard questions of their philosophical belief system, whatever they believe. They pick a belief system from whatever seems convienient, or they have a negative experience with one belief system and conclude it's false, or want to engage in behaviors not cosistent under their present belief system and change so they can have freedom, etc. It's almost never about logical thought. But crud, they don't even teach logic anymore in public schools, so what should I expect?

ripsnort
What about cover thy neighbors wife????????

APF - You got it right. Jesus Christ is either God or a liar. One or the other, it isn't possible to be a "little bit one and a little bit the other".

Too much historical evidence that he lived. No doubts about that. But the fact is he can't be a "good Prophet" or a "good man" or a "good example". He is either a dammed liar or he is God. It's up to each of us to decide what we choose to believe. But there's only one right answer when we face our judgment. There won't be no room for "opinions" on that test.

FWIW, I saw the movie last night. It was good. I thinkg Gibson really hit the nail on the head in the way he portrayed the mob mentality and nature of punishment of the day.

One question for those discussing the basis of religion; is one form of Christianity as good as another? Does Catholic = Lutheran = Protestant = Baptist = etc..???

pointer

Religeon is man's invention. I believe what God will want to know at judgement is, "What did you do with my Son?"

Religeon causes lots of folks to die and bust hell wide open! Just have a personal relationship with Jesus and it'll all be O'kay...

Mike

I somehow doubt God prefers one over the other. I think it boils down to your retationship to Him, and accepting the blood sacrifice made on our behalf.

BTW, for those interested, the actor who played Christ in the movie did a phone interview w/ Rush Limbaugh.
7mm

The wife and I went to see the movie last night. I was impressed with the movie I think he did an excellent job of bringing the words of the bible to life on the screen.
When it says in the bible that they took him out and scourged him the depth of that meant does not come thru since we have no frame of reference to understand. And when the bible says they took him out and crucified him and the words do not convey what that meant.
I have heard people speak in church and explain that writers of the gospels felt no need to expand beyond those words or explain what they meant since the reality of those two acts were common place in that time period. tom

And what will you do for eternity? Just wonderin'...

Waders, good to see you back. Hope your Dad is doing well. Bob

For me the whole validity of Christ, his message, and the Bible can be found in one little passage in Acts.

You see, Roman Palestine, and that part of the world in general, was a hotbed of religious upheaval. The Jewish religion was actually quite well known and spread somewhat throughout the Empire. There were various cults and Messianic figures appearing every few years. They would attract followers and death and resurrection was often part of their messages.

After his resurrection and assent into Heaven, the apostles of Jesus were still going about and preaching the Good News with reckless abandon. Naturally, this brought them into conflict with the same Jewish authorities who had seen to it that Jesus had been crucified. The apostles were arrested and brough before the Sanhedrin and questioned by the High Priest. They would have probably been killed but for the actions of one of the priest. A pharisee named Gamaliel stood up and said (I paraphrase): Remember Theudas. He was a preacher with a number of followers. We killed him and his followers scattered. Remember Judas. He led a revolt and we killed him and his followers scattered. We've already killed Jesus. If his movement be of man, his followers will scatter as well. If his movement be of God, then all we will accomplish by fighting it is being against God and we will not be able to stop it anyway.

That speech saved the apostles on that day. Later the movement was persecuted greatly by the Jews and others. But true to the prophecy of Gamaliel, it did not die out but instead prospered as no other religion ever has.

Today, we would not know the names of any of the messianic pretenders of that time except through obscure references in the Bible and journals from that time. But today, after two thousand years, after innumerable wars, after countless heresies, after fifteen hundred years where a man could be burned for daring to print the Bible in his native language, after countless other trials and tribulations, I am able to read the very words of Jesus in almost any language ever conceived.

Truly, Jesus was the Son of God. He died for our sins, and all anyone needs to prove his faith can be found in the Bible. Mel Gibson's movie is great, but it is not the Bible. The way to God is written in the pages of the Bible. Do not rely on a movie or the preaching of your preacher or priest, read it yourself so that your faith may be nourished and increased through its words.

Waders



Quote: And what will you do for eternity? Just wonderin'...







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Waders, Good to see you back.

The wifey and I are going to see the Passion tomorrow afternoon.

Looks to be the biggest movie ever made. Amen...

Here's a pretty good description of the crucifixion process from the medical perspective. Turns out the scourging Jesus received might have proved fatal as much as anything.

www.frugalsites.net/jesus/