Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Military Yet another Vet on Kerry

navrunner1, Believe it or not, Ike sent advisors in before the debacle at Dien Bien Phu. We had active advisors/observers there almost from the end of WWII!

Hey I was born in 77 so yes I didn't watch Vietnam on the news. But I do know what is going on in the war on terror and yes that does include IRAQ.



I find it interresting you pick on a paragraph that is talking of a book quote and not any of the other points I said.



Why do you think the felling is that among the terrorist that if they can give us a couple of Mogadishues ( I can't spell that one sorry) then the American public will cry and the president will call the troops home. Seems like they were led to believe that from a certain party's actions previous to Mr. Bush's term. Everyone acts like Bush ticked off UBL and then UBL attacked- well I remember hearing of some tomahawks hitting an aspirin factory in Afghanistan (klinton turned his back on the sailor of the USS COLE - 2 missles and an aspirin factory for the lives of sailors?)



Mr Kerry had PLENTY of time as a member of congress to make sure this country is safe and run in a way he would like. Bush is simply responding to the situation given to him-- Why is it Kerry thinks NOW he can get it right for us?



He had the time and was in a position to do so.



Andrew



I didn't know that bout IKE thanks for the info!

"Mr Kerry had PLENTY of time as a member of congress to make sure this country is safe and run in a way he would like. Bush is simply responding to the situation given to him-- Why is it Kerry thinks NOW he can get it right for us"


Mr, Kerry is no less or more responsible than any other political person in going to wars with IRAQ. As commander-in-chief, junior bushes is totally responsible and no other person. And to my knowledge this is the very first time this level of a offense evasion has ever been undertaken against another country, that was not provoke first. Please don't claim 911 was the reason.

You still have failed to tell me just what Kerry has done or would do to make things better!!

I could sit here all day and tell the country whats wrong with the country but until I have an answer or a plan I really do not have the right to blast a man over his job performance- There isn't a checklist you are to follow when an event like 9/11 happens, also the congress gave Bush the authority to do so- Kerry voted for it based on the information he had which was the same as Bush so why is it ok for Kerry to make the decision based on that information but not Bush?

Kerry may be a fine man but that does not make him the best choice for president. The question is who is better to lead the US for the next four years Bush or Kerry?

Kerry has not laid one plan out as to how he would handle things - I want to know exactly how he is going to respond when a car bomb goes off in IRAQ? Are we going to run out of there? Kerry and the Dems say we need to get the international community involved well they can call France and Germany on their own to make a case to be there- Jesse Jackson flies all over the place to meet and greet - why not to France?

Carter loves this type of job --- remember how he did in N. KOREA? It seems to me all these people are so "concerned" about the state of affairs but are holding back until after the election - putting themselves before the country.

Bush has had the guts to stake his presidency on this war and has not backed off of his assertion it was a rightous and correct thing to do.

andrew

I have known dozens of Nam vets. I have never heard one that was in heavy fighting begrudge a Guardsman or even those that went to Canada. They have told me that they were glad that anybody that could, did not have to go through the hell that they did. Some said if they had it to do over, they would have gone to Canada or joined the Guard, which by the way was certainly not difficult to get into in the two states I am familiar with, before 68 or after. About everyone I knew got into the Guard who wanted to. I have never heard Nam vets gloat over their service. Just did not run into those types of people.



The fact is, that had Vietnam been a WW II situation, which it was not, everyone would have willingly dropped their deferments and joined up like they did in WW II. It became ever so apparent around 67 that something was horribly wrong with the Vietnam situation so boys that normally would have been gung ho started looking around for other options. The Navy and Air Force were in general, not always depending on the job, about as safe as being in the Guard at home. Those guys were joining those services to avoid ground combat. Do you equate them with Guardsmen?



Most aspects of anything to do with Vietnam can be argued till the cows come home and we will never get it figured out. I am going to throw a concept out here that most simply refuse to acknowledge. Social ostracization, the avoidance of it, was the driving force and was a fate worse than death for most in so many wars. They went and fought because they could not handle the shame of not doing so. It was not because they believed in the cause; many did not have a clue as to why. They knew their relatives and friends and society would haunt them forever or that prison might be worse, etc. True courage was a man that did not let society dictate to him through shame that he should participate in a cause he knew was wrong. In the beginning most believed in the Vietnam cause. I believe most went to Nam believing in the cause and they may have been correct in their beliefs. As time went by, we changed our opinions. Maybe, had the military been given the authority to run the war, it could have been over fast. That did not happen and LBJ mucked it up and the rest is history-we lost 58,000, hundreds of thousands mentally and physically wounded, the Vietnamese millions-like they had not already been through enough hell with Chinese invasions, French colonialism, communism with it's civil war 1945 to 1975, the spill over into Cambodia and the resultant horrors there with millions dead, etc. The whole history there of human suffering is more than one can comprehend and we did not handle our end of it like we should have. I mean we rearmed the very Japanese we had fought in WW II at the end of hostilities to fight against the Vietnamese who were trying to free themselves from French occupation-it was nationalism, communism second. Yes, Ho was horrible but millions died under his leadership rather than submit to French or U S interference. Like I said, it was bigger than what we could handle and we misjudged the situation horribly- remember McNamara.

Andrew,



I'll be the first submit your knowledge of current affairs is far superior to mind. But the fact of your ignorance of my generation only goes to show what put us here in the first place.

As we tune in to another episode of "As the Troll Turns."

1 last thing if my knowledge of current affairs is superior - why then would you make a decision to support a man (kerry) if you aren't all that familiar with the current situation in Iraq, the US and the world!

You are blasting Bush but admit you aren't up to speed on the current situation! wha? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Why in the he double L would you be in a position to criticize the president if you are ignorant of the facts. Everything I have said is available in open source locations yet you haven't taken the time to educate yourself before you vote/throw your support behind an individual.

Dangerous practice because regardless of your political leanings being an idealogue instead of an informed reasonable person means you wont notice when your choice starts to hurt you.

Andrew

Ps I'm done I'll let this person go away now.

Oddly enough, Mr. Kerry hasn't really apologized for his demonstrating but the gal (Hanoi Jane) in the picture with him has. Why would one protest against a war and then point to his medal or medals later to get elected to a political office? Who is Mr. Kerry really? If you follow his voting record can you tell where he's coming from? Most can't. He's even more two faced than Al Gore.

What I've learned from this thread is if you were drafted into the military or served in the National Guard you are dirt beneath a certain person's feet. If you were drafted and served in Viet Nam you have no honor or worth.

That said I don't regret my military time spent helping to protect my fellow American's freedoms. One is the freedom of speech. I'm glad we can still say what we believe. I must say some people make me want to puke. Just for the record my military experience was active duty Air Force as a fighter acft. crew chief and an ANG crew chief and flight engineer. I actually had two terms of active duty and two in the ANG. I say this to clarify my past military duty, NOT to make reference to a group I'm familiar with.

You certainly have a lot of in right , especially the part about who screwed up (JFK Johnson administration) . In my opinion if Nixon would have won election in 60 , the Vietnam Memorial wall would not exist today. but hindsight is always 20/20.



As a law-abiding citizen in an election year , I will openly display my dislike for Junior Bush and give reasons why. For some reason I'd like to naively think this is how the system is to work. However, if or when Junior Bush wins his second term there'll be no more open statements from myself regarding his policies, but until then I'm camping out!

"Oddly enough, Mr. Kerry hasn't really apologized for his demonstrating but the gal (Hanoi Jane) in the picture with him has."

In my opinion, Mr Kerry does not need to apologize for anything considering his military record .

navrunner1, I want to thank you and all of the others for their service. You will get nowhere with Larry. He is a legend in his own mind. Yes, some of us did think that is was our duty to serve in Vietnam and not run off to Canada. I also feel that the National Guard and Coast Guard is serving our country, then and now. miles

"Yes, some of us did think that is was our duty to serve in Vietnam and not run off to Canada. I also feel that the National Guard and Coast Guard is serving our country, then and now. "

All,
There's another sucker born everyday. just don't swallow. LOL

Thank you sir for the thanks!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It is nice to hear it once in a while.

Andrew

O.K. I'll say it to, thank you for your service to our country.

Burkett, whose 1999 book, "Stolen Valor," is considered to be the definitive history of of falsified Vietnam War claims, told WABC Radio's Steve Malzberg that Kerry's former commanders would allege that the top Democrat's Purple Hearts were awarded for "self-reported injuries that were virtually nonexistent."

"He never got a day of treatment, he never spent a day in a medical facility," Burkett said. "These were all self-reported wounds, which you're going to hear from some swift boat guys in the future as to the nature of those wounds."

Burkett said he had personally spoken to the Navy commanders who were preparing to go public about Kerry's decorations.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/4/4/234750.shtml

Something you all might want to think about, the more Mr Kerry military record is attacked in this discussion. Any Vietnam veteran prior 69 reading this subject is more likely to vote fellow veteran. LOL

Sure...once you get your head out of your ass, I got a bridge to sell ya.

Matthias,

There's probably something you better get used to, unlike our counterparts (the veterans of World War II and Korea) that turned their backs on us. Come November the veterans of Vietnam will send Junior Bush packing back to Texas. LOL

See my post above yours. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />