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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2003
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If you want to see some of the traffic and criminal laws for the state in which you live. You can order the following books. The Pocket Press books are a small compressed version of the most common applied laws. The Lexis Publishing is a large full text version. They are updated every year. www.pocketpressinc.com www.lexisnexis.com
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 92
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Girl deserved the ticket---period end of story.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 939
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2007
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I have no interest in seeing any LE injured while on the side of the road. I am happy to change lanes to give them more space, but there are times when you are not able to do this in time. That is why the law is unfair. It makes no exception for times when there is no room for a safe lane change. Safety applies to everyone on the road, not just LE. It also doesn't help when traps are set up to catch people that either can't or don't pull over...then it sort of looks like its more about revenue generation. I am aware that in addition to writing tickets, hwy patrol play many other roles, including assisting stranded motorists. I did not intend my original post to be LE rant, I always limit my comments to "some" LE, rather than applying my observations to all LE. I have no interest in reading about traffic laws. When I do legal research, I get paid by the hour for it. 
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,939
Campfire Regular
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I doubt it. Drive I-75 from I-10 to Wildwood, in the right lane the whole way, and see what a PITA it can be to get over.
I would bet if she takes this to court, she'd get it dismissed.
Also, one anti-gun/CCW FHP LEO don't make 'em all anti gun/CCW.
What stretch of road did she get cited on btw?
Do it today. Tomorrow there may be a law against it.
NRA Life Member
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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[quote=TomSmith]So, how is requiring a driver to make what can often be an unsafe lane change with little or no warning going to make the highway safer?"
Safer for the leo that has someone pulled over.
"If the legislature is going to enact unusual traffic laws, those laws should be publicized. Isn't the idea safety...instead of tickets? If the idea is safety then let drivers know about it...what are people required to do review the FL traffic code to see what laws have been changed or added during each legislative session?"
They advertised the hell out of it when it went into effect up here.
"Police write tickets for revenue."
It all goes to the schools in this state. Cops don't get any of it.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 939
Campfire Regular
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Posts: 939 |
So it comes down to either I get a ticket or I cut off another driver and put us both at risk? If LE doesn't want to be harms way while they write tickets, to the point where a law needs to be created that potentially puts my safety at risk, maybe they should consider working in a library, or quit writing so damn many tickets.
Never saw it advertised until the local news did a short segment about it last spring...the drivers they were pulling over had never heard of it either. I don't think that in general people go out of their way to violate the law. If I am able to pull over, I do, otherwise I don't. What more can you ask someone to do?
I don't care where the money goes, LE writes tickets because they are required to, they have a quota system. My property taxes also go to the schools, the lotto goes to the schools. They get plenty of money. Even Title I Schools in FL have money leaking from their azzes.
Last edited by TomSmith; 12/02/08.
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,765
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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It is rare that a LEO will pull over a car and not have lights flashing.
You can see them a long way off.
Move over if you can safely, if not slow down as required.
It ain't a big deal.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,815 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,815 Likes: 11 |
That is a Troopers personal opinion, NOT FHP policy. I would report him to the troop commander.
In Fl you either move over 1 lane or slow down to 45 MPH on Interstates or 20 under the posted limit down to 20 MPH on other roadways. That law has been in effect for about 3 years. Not only that but it is a courteous and SAFE thing to do. when the multi jurisdictional task force runs that scam around here, they cut you NO slack for slowing down. Its a money making operation. Period. The last on in Alachua County that I know of stopped several hindered cars in the space of a few hours. The officer on the side of the road was there just to provide the excuse to pull folks over. Despicable behavior.
Sam......
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096 |
T,
So, how is requiring a driver to make what can often be an unsafe lane change with little or no warning going to make the highway safer? Safe driving on the highway IS DRIVING IN THE RIGHT LANE.
When I said 70mph, I was being kind. I am sure that a lot of you Punta Gorda retiree's don't spend a lot of time on I-75 but I can tell you that 70 is the starting point. I drive the speed limit. If its 65, then that's what I drive. If you want to drive less than the speed limit on the highway that is your business, but it won't make that lane change any easier in traffic.
If the legislature is going to enact unusual traffic laws, those laws should be publicized. Isn't the idea safety...instead of tickets? If the idea is safety then let drivers know about it...what are people required to do review the FL traffic code to see what laws have been changed or added during each legislative session?
I doubt that this law has anything to do with safety because it makes a criminal out of a driver that may not have been able to make a lane change. I've seen it used as a speed trap where one LE vehicle is on the side of the road, while another one is ahead pulling over anyone that didn't change lanes. Sound like BS to me.
It may be their job to enforce traffic laws, but that doesn't require the indignation that many seem to have. Police write tickets for revenue. It is like a tax you pay. I have never seen a study that suggests that writing more tickets has any effect on driving behavior. In fact, I believe that a warning has at least as much, if not more, effect than writing a ticket.
I've seen police routinely violate minor traffic laws but some (not all) seem to take such violations by the public quite personally. Write the ticket or don't write the ticket...but save the attitude. It is only a traffic fine. It is not the end of the world. All the a-hole routine does is make people bitter and angry toward cops. My suggestion for LE is to keep the violation in perspective and keep it professional. That is all I expect. There is No need for a self-rightous lecture because it implys that they don't do these things themselves. The only difference between us is that they don't receive tickets.
First off it is called awareness, do you note the mile markers as you pass so you know where you are at should you have to call for help? Same thing about traffic up ahead, you should be aware of what is going on and be able to make safe movements. And when I said SLOW DOWN, I meant if you can't get over, SLOW DOWN DAMMIT! That is not too much to ask in my book. It is called "defensive driving" and actually works if you are paying attention to your driving without distractions such as cell phones, map reading, meal taking, beauty treatments, shaving and jiving to the radio, etc., etc., etc. I drive the interstate a lot, I go the speed limit and stay mostly in the right lane to avoid the wannabee road racers, some days when I am in the right vehicle I even give them the thrill of seeing flashing red & blue lights coming up behind them, as I am back as a volunteer at my old dept., although that is rarely on the interstate. I pull a 28' travel trailer, a 26' stock trailer with moving beef or horses in it and an 18' utility trailer up and down I-75 & other I-States several times a year and pulled a 53' reefer for several years after pulling the pin the first time from the Sheriff's Dept. It is not hard to be careful, get where you are going and obeying the laws on the way if you are willing to pay attention. I have many times traveled the freeways and surface streets in LA in a conventional Freightliner with 53' of trailer on the back without running anybody over and giving those on the side of the road a little extra room. That makes driving almost anywhere else a walk in the park. The traffic laws are always added to the drivers handbook that is free from the DMV office as well as being talked about on TV & radio news and in articles in the newspaper, unless you live in a cave 363 days a year you should have no trouble keeping up with the laws that pertain to you. BTW, THAT is your responsibility to stay informed, unless you believe in a nanny govt. that will take care of you despite yourself. You obviously are one of the cop haters that that will find fault even where there is none, so I bid you Have a Nice Day Sir.
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096 |
I don't care where the money goes, LE writes tickets because they are required to, they have a quota system.
I really hate to bust your bubble. Read my lips, THERE IS NO QUOTA SYSTEM IN LE FOR TICKET WRITING. That is the biggest urban myth ever. Yes some agencies DID have one in the dim past, but that was a thing of the 50's & 60's.
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,798 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,798 Likes: 4 |
I don't care where the money goes, LE writes tickets because they are required to, they have a quota system.
I really hate to bust your bubble. Read my lips, THERE IS NO QUOTA SYSTEM IN LE FOR TICKET WRITING. That is the biggest urban myth ever. Yes some agencies DID have one in the dim past, but that was a thing of the 50's & 60's. I don't have a quota, I can write as many tickets as I want too!  (note the smiley, I'm only joking). T Lee is 100% correct, nobody has ticket quotas anymore. Most Chiefs around here don't get worked up about stops/tickets. George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 16,032
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 16,032 |
I don't know a thing about FHP but I am all in favor of move over laws. I have lost two good friends who where DPS troopers getting run over while having a car stopped on the highway. Never seen a troop stop a car whithout his bubble gum machine going full blast either.
Maybe we are just lucky in Texas but like Gringo said 99% of the DPS troops are square shooters and all business. They will cut you a break if they can and you don't rub it in their face.
When we are stopped we must hand over our CCL with our drivers license. I have never had one ask for my gun. Have had a few ask where it was but never to see it.
Quando Omni Moritati
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Joined: Aug 2008
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New Member
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New Member
Joined: Aug 2008
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i live in ocala and have a few fhp guys bring their cars in for service. they are the ones that patrol alachua/marion co.border and south.most hunt shoot and don't have a problem w/guns in vehicles if properly kept or person has a ccw permit.however most will cop an attitude if given one, for some reason i think she was stopped in alachua co.which is very liberal and possibly that officer was home grown.all of the troopers i talked to have had close calls w/vehicles passing by them close and will get pissed, still doesnt excuse his lecture. jeff
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
I don't care where the money goes, LE writes tickets because they are required to, they have a quota system.
I really hate to bust your bubble. Read my lips, THERE IS NO QUOTA SYSTEM IN LE FOR TICKET WRITING. That is the biggest urban myth ever. Yes some agencies DID have one in the dim past, but that was a thing of the 50's & 60's. I don't have a quota, I can write as many tickets as I want too! (note the smiley, I'm only joking). T Lee is 100% correct, nobody has ticket quotas anymore. Most Chiefs around here don't get worked up about stops/tickets. George Both of you guys are wrong, there are still ticket quotas in certain states where they aren't illegal. Dekalb county, Georgia was in the news when I lived in Georgia two years ago for having quotas. Not saying it's prevalent, but saying it doesn't exist and was in the dim past is erroneous.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 13,957 |
So much for dim past... http://www.cbs46.com/news/14317413/detail.html"DECATUR, Ga. -- CBS 46 News has learned that the DeKalb County Police Department may have instituted a quota system.
Sources tell CBS 46 that officers are being ordered to make a certain number of arrests, and write a certain number of tickets each month.
Regardless, the line to get into DeKalb�s traffic court is growing and may continue to grow if Police Chief Terrell Bolton has anything to do with it.
CBS 46 News has learned that under the Guided Achievement Plan, Bolton is ordering his officers to write more tickets and arrest more people because they are well behind the number of arrests and tickets compared to 2006."
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,597
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,597 |
In Fl you either move over 1 lane or slow down to 45 MPH on Interstates or 20 under the posted limit down to 20 MPH on other roadways. That law has been in effect for about 3 years. Not only that but it is a courteous and SAFE thing to do. Must be a regional thing. In NY, when people see a trooper handing out a ticket, they assume that section of the road is patrol-free and all speed limits are de facto suspended.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." - C.S. Lewis
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 705
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 705 |
Just to clarify, no problem with ticket, she deserved it and we'll pay it. Problem was with the attitude of officer and his negligent handling of her handgun. BTW, this was on SR 60 i believe in Polk county.
NRA Life Member
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,815 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,815 Likes: 11 |
i live in ocala and have a few fhp guys bring their cars in for service. they are the ones that patrol alachua/marion co.border and south.most hunt shoot and don't have a problem w/guns in vehicles if properly kept or person has a ccw permit.however most will cop an attitude if given one, for some reason i think she was stopped in alachua co.which is very liberal and possibly that officer was home grown.all of the troopers i talked to have had close calls w/vehicles passing by them close and will get pissed, still doesnt excuse his lecture. jeff Marr8479, good to see another North Florida guy on board. I am in Ocala often, either visiting family, or shopping. Hope to see you some day.
Sam......
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,798 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,798 Likes: 4 |
I don't care where the money goes, LE writes tickets because they are required to, they have a quota system.
I really hate to bust your bubble. Read my lips, THERE IS NO QUOTA SYSTEM IN LE FOR TICKET WRITING. That is the biggest urban myth ever. Yes some agencies DID have one in the dim past, but that was a thing of the 50's & 60's. I don't have a quota, I can write as many tickets as I want too! (note the smiley, I'm only joking). T Lee is 100% correct, nobody has ticket quotas anymore. Most Chiefs around here don't get worked up about stops/tickets. George Both of you guys are wrong, there are still ticket quotas in certain states where they aren't illegal. Dekalb county, Georgia was in the news when I lived in Georgia two years ago for having quotas. Not saying it's prevalent, but saying it doesn't exist and was in the dim past is erroneous. I stand corrected. In talking to LEOs nationwide I thought quotas had gone the way of the dodo. Not good in practice or perception in my opinion. George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,655 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,655 Likes: 4 |
Remember, too, that as terms take on a negative meaning they get changed, whether the underlying concept changes or not. Example: affirmative action became diversity; quotas became goals
I'll bet that as ticket quotas became controversial, many agencies adopted "performance measures" or "goals" for their personnel.
What has been the experience of you LEOs with your departments?
Paul
Stupidity has its way, while its cousin, evil, runs rampant.
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