Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 257 WBY or 300 Win Mag as the all around western rifle?

Since I've a pile of H4831SC I'll try #2 with the 180 Partition.

I'd appreciate hearing the results.

Brad, I remember Chuck and Dober's wonky TSX issues but must have missed your's.
You(or someone) have a link or details?

Thanks, Sam

I have to comment here on this as I just read your thread on your elk this year (which by the way was a dandy bull!). This is what you wrote in your story...

"The shot was hard quartering away, the bullet went through about 1/3 from the bottom nearly half way back (guts) and through the opposite shoulder and lodged just under the skin. "

You then went on to mention this

" Minutes go by and he's still standing there. My buddy walked a few hundred yards to get a better angle. He sets up the spotting scope. Probably 15 minutes pass and the bull finally lays down. A few more minutes pass and he tries to stand but can't. I'm starting to feel good about it. A few more minutes pass and the bull stretches his nose to the sky in attempt to draw air. Every few minutes he repeats the gasp. He's in his death bed. Finally after about 45 minutes he takes his last gulp of air.The bullet struck a rib, punctured one lung (missed the heart), went through the lower part of the shoulder, and the hide stopped it."

Then as you second guess the Barnes TSX that was not well placed you then say this....

"Weight retention was nearly 100% and with perfect petals. It did its job but it took a while. I only hit one vital, a lung, and barely clipped the shoulder. It was a very clean pass through, not very tramatic. Luckily the bull layed down within ten yards of the shot and we watched him for nearly 45 minutes before he expired. I feel a more explosive bullet would have inflicted more trauma and he would not have made it as long. "

Now I am not gonna dog you because I am well aware that chit happens in the field, but your last statement is really what keeps coming up when folks depict Barnes performance negatively. You said " I feel a more explosive bullet would have inflicted more trauma" . What is more explosive and more trauma? Were you hoping that the bullet would devate from the path you sent it on and then explode once it penetrated the guts and instead of nearly puncturing one lung it would have detonated and blown them both up and took the heart with it? This was a 548 yard shot at a "Hard" quartering away bull elk, that you decided to take a shot at hoping to penetrate the entire gut sack, hit no bone and terminally end up somewhere in the vitals hoping something gets [bleep] up and kills it. I mean c'mon man, you made a good shot (distance wise), obviously not the best angle on an animal that size and you were fortunate enough to have used a bullet that actually penetrated through a less than desireable path through a large animal. I would question how other bullets would have performed given the route you chose personally. Cant answer why you didn't move for a follow up shot with your partner, but I am guessing that if you had opted for a better shot angle from the git go, it wouldn't have taken 45 minutes for the [bleep] to die. Could just be me.....but I'd say to some degree that the 168 grain Barnes TSX saved your azz based on what I just read! Premium bullets (Barnes specifically)aint magic, they still have to be placed in the right places just like any other bullet and I think a lot of folks just caint grasp that and then when less than magic happens they blame the bullet. What say you?

I would gave to agree with AlaskaCub; the bullet did its' job, expanded,reached the off side.I suspect the elk would not have lasted as long had both lungs been damaged. It did all that could be expected and a pass-through would not have mattered a lick;it really can't be assured with any expanding bullet, I think.

As I've stated before I've very little experience shooting game larger than whitetails. All I know is this. The bullet path was not very traumatic, I'd compare it to an arrow pass through. I've seen lots of deer killed with BT's and similiar bullets resulting in massive internal damage. I know that you wouldn't want to shoot an elk with a fragile bullet but I want a happy medium resulting in more explosive damage than what I saw with the TSX.

Does that make sense?

Shakin my head here. Just freekin unbelievable.

Asolutely it makes snse, but you got to remember......PLACEMENT supercedes caliber, no matter what, when your talking about big critters! I have seen moose walking around with their sides ripped open (by a bear) guts hanging out,faces avulsed, broken legs, gut shot by arrows, hit by trucks, and they live for days or weeks wounded like that. To me an elk is no different. Use whatever bullets suit you, but dude you cant ask for a better result IMO based on how your elk hunt went down. And if you are gonna plan on taking similar shots at that range and at those angles in the future, I'd say your currently using the best bullet for the job!

BTW, not once have I ever even insinuated that the bullet failed.

Also, I must admit that when given the angle my first thought was that I was shooting a TSX, let her rip! Can't say that I'd have felt the same way with any other bullet, based on perception alone.

It is freekin unbelievable isn't it. Next year I hope to make it three for three.

FWIW...You just earned some kudo points from me by saying that because I would bet money that many guys using them (especially for the first time) are thinking the same thing as they squeeze the trigger on a less than desirable shot. They aint magic bullets, they dont make huge mushrooms, they dont explode, but they do break chit, make an adequate wound channel and penetrate like a mo fo. Incidentally they also tend to shot with superb accuracy (at least for me). And IMO without getting into ethics, they have allowed some guys to take some shots and harvest some critters that normally would have resulted in a bad sichiation! Dont second guess your bullet, instead second guess taking that kind of shot in the future. The TSX saved your azz this time, but it might not the next! But damn sure dont hate it for what it did!

I'm trying to get to the one bullet thing with the 300. 180 partition for everything?

Thats another whole thread (grin)

Friend Dave,

Who woulda thunk that your simple question would have resulted in a thread this long. And some of the responses were downright emotional.

Your question, as I remember it, was about the elusive All-Around Western Rifle." Most folks shoot a few meat elk and lots of deer and antelope and a few black bears. For this use, it doesn't take a cannon and it also does not take a particularly heavy bullet.

Heck, the best elk hunter I ever guided used a .308 and 150 Hornadys. And he never shot twice, that I recall. The man could shoot, the man had a self-imposed range limitation of 200 yards, he had the patience to wait until the elk positioned himself right and he placed the shot to hit both lungs and (hopefully) the aorta.

My biggest antlered critters have fallen to fairly small cartridges and regular bullets, but the bullet placement was adequate and the elk/mooses were most sincerely dead. All of these were killed on hunts when I had the large animal tag in my pocket, but was actually hunting and prepared for whitetail or mule deer and the chance of an elk/moose was quite low.

The Gods of the Hunt seemingly get a charge out of catching Steve in the field with 120-grain Ballistics in the gun and throwing him a moose. Surprise; they die just fine.

Big bears and trophy elk are a seperate category, but a fella would probably know when he's hunting them.

Anyway, watching this thread, this circus, from afar has been great fun. Nothing to get emotional about; those with experience know and those with no experience don't; and only experience in the field is the teacher.

Merry Christmas to you and Andrea and the whole Clan.

Steve

FWIW I witnessed a whitetail doe shot at 30 yards from a 257 WBY using 100gr Horn Interlocks. The shoulders were smashed with a clean pass through and the damage indicated that the bullet held together well. Given the velocity I gained a little respect for that little pill.

You might want to watch a few more shot like that before giving it too much respect.

I have seen quite a few animals shot with the .25-caliber 100 Hornady Spire Point, and it does a lot better than most people would assume, even at pretty close range at pretty high impact velocity. In fact I have a couple of friends who use it by choice in the .257 Weatherby for hunting big mule deer in eastern Montana. Of course, they rarely take a shot at much under 200 yards.

But the Spire Points have cores with a fairly high antimony content, and the jackets are stouter than some others as well. They will surprise you.

I'm pretty sure Elmer wouild be proud of you.

As Steve said, this has been a remarkable thread...or at least words to that effect.

I've whacked several mulies and whitetails, both in Alberta and Montana with a gain-twist barrel .25-'06 and 100-grain Hornady Interlockeds at a cool 3,500 fps.

Some of the shots have been remarkably close and some have stretched the barrel a mite. In thinking back, the combination has yielded about 15 kills for me.

The Hornady had always broken bone fine and all have exited, leaving a one- to two-inch exit wound and not bad bloodshooting. Occasionally, I'll get a cranberry sauce armpit, but every bullet, even premium ones, will do that and the Interlocked seemingly doesn't do it to excess.

I know that it is not Campfire or Internet PC to say that a common bullet works well under any conditions, but the .257 100-grain Hornady Interlocked has always given me perfect performance. It will be one of my prime picks when I fully develop my new Remington 700 SPS Stainless/Synthetic .257 Weatherby.

I'm a believer.

Steve