Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Do Ball Powders Produce More Consistent Loads?

I was talking to a friend who had heard from someone (you can see why I'm asking) that ball powders were more consistent when developing loads. Any truth to this? Any advantages over extruded powders?

They can meter easier than extruded through a powder measure. They also tend to be more temp sensitive ( a general rule thing not absolutely true in all cases). So there may be some extrapolation of easier metering to more consistent loads. It'd be an easy jump as metered ball powder charges tend to be more consistent as in more often on or very close to desired than the average extruded powder load. That doesn't mean that loads using ball powder tend to have smaller velocity and SD variations than extruded powder loads. Nor does it mean you can't use a powder measure with good results and extruded powders.

They meter better and as such if I was running a progressive press for handgun loads or volume rifle like .308 or .223 a ball powder would be preferable to an extruded one. With single stage loading and weighed charges it doesn't mean squat to me.

I'm one of those guys that insists on weighing all of his powder charges. I've long known that ball powders do throw charges that are closer to whatever I want. However, I've also learned that I can get a charge with them that is pretty far off. Enough to make me do it over, or add/subtract to it.
I've used Hogden's and won't again until I discover that they are making really clean burning ball powder. I've used Winchester's 748 and found it OK, but not impressive. I've used a couple the AA family and liked them, but have since moved on.
I really like the Ramshot line. Accuracy, temperature tolerance, very easy metering. The only "problem" I've found is they jump to excessive pressure levels more easily than the extruded types do as a rule. Not a really a problem except when developing loads.
I basically use just Hogden's extruded or Ramshot powders these days for my serious rifles. If I can find a load I really like with the Ramshot ball, then I tend to use that over, say, a Hogden extruded type. But it doesn't always work out that way.
I'm not sure what you means by consistant. To me that means very similar, reliable performance all year in that rifle. No where near any pressure signs with at least factory published velocity. E

Typically powder measures throw more consistent charges of ball powder, but this does not necessarily translate into superior downrange performance.

A while back Jensen's in Tucson, AZ got the contract to make 308 ammunition for the Palma match. They found that even though IMR4895 didn't meter as well as the ball powder they tested it gave superior results on target at long range.

The necessity of weighing every charge varies from situation to situation. For most purposes a well developed load shouldn't be so sensitive that +/- a tenth grain of powder really matters. So if there's a powder suitable for your application that meters reasonably well you can successfully load straight from a powder measure.

I'd sure hate to get ready for a big prarie dog shoot and have to weigh every charge for a few hundred 223s. And if you can't get easy sub-moa groups with thrown charges for a 308 then something is wrong somewhere.

I've done some testing in the 308 Win using RL15 and W748.

Both powders are capable of similar velocities with 155 Scenar, 190 SMK, 208 AMax, 210 Berger.

I've had consistently better accuracy with the RL15.

I weighed all the charges.

On average, my results at 100 yards are about .7 moa for the RL15, and 1.0 moa for the W748.

Big plus in the ball powders, they aren't nearly so sensitive to temperature in storage as the extruded powders. Ammo loaded with them keeps longer, and the ammunition holds its consistency for longer shelf life in tropical and desert settings. Me, I like them, though they have a tendency to leave a residue in the bore that is apt to require more elbow grease than the stick powders.

Otimist,

You need to try the Ramshot ball powders. They are about as clean-burning as any powder made, and generally result in very fine accuracy. With a few exceptions, they are my main powders for prairie dog loads anymore, especially in the .204 and .223.

But they are good all the way up the line. I have used them in a bunch of cartridges up to .416 Rigby, on big game from pronghorns to Cape buffalo. Good stuff.

I don't like H414/WW760 and H450. For some reason they have given me pressure spikes in a 6mm Rem. Judging by the primer most of the primers would look OK then I would get one that was flatten all to hell. These were all max loads. Could have been for some reason other than the powder but did not have trouble with 4350 or H4831.

My Dad was a benchrest shooter [and pretty succesful] I can recall listening to lenghty discussions on various accuracy issues..one of which was volume more important than weight? [obviously this was regarding benchrest powder charges] I think most of those shooters thought it was...they all measured charges instead of weighing them..I don't shoot benchrest, but do load [and have for fifty years] more than thirty calibers..I tend to measure smaller caliber charges 222, 204, 223, etc. and weigh larger calibers..probably because I use more ball and smaller granule powders in the smaller calibers. Dad also used his higher math skills in studing barrel harmonics, barrel diameters, twist, etc. I don't think he ever arrived at any conclusions that he felt were viable.
jmr

FWIW, depending on burn rate, there are quite a few extruded powders that meter almost like ball powder. If you have a decent measure and load enough you will get a "feel" for charging with them.

This "feel" is consistent with a volume charge rather than with weight.

Rick Jamison had a pretty interesting article once upon a time about ball, extruded, and weighing versus volume charging.

My observations are that ball powder does not give me the consistency in grouping that I get with IMR single base stick powder. They tend to burn very dirty, with a few exceptions and show pressure variation in regards to temperatures more than "stick" powder. The disadvantage of slightly difficult metering is more than offset by the stick powder advantages. I use IMR 4064 for as many cartridges as I can and I get exquisite accuracy and unbelievably clean barrels after shooting, as a result.

I'm quite amused by an above post claiming better long term stability for ball powders. I had a can of H414 get VERY hot on me while I had it so that I had to lower the previous safe charges considerably. I do remember reading where a fellow bought a 25# keg of IMR 4895 after WWII and finished it up 30? years later and it was exactly the same speed as the original loads. I'll stick with "stick" powder!

I agree. One other item of consideration; Once you begin hit the maximum allowable charge, ball powders tend to react pretty violently in my loads when they approach overcharge. Extruded powders are usually more forgiving.

+1 That's a FACT!