Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Barrel length for a 300 wsm?

Good grief.

Those speeds are more than a bit hinky sounding to me. A 16.5" tube should run a 180 in and around 2725 fps, not 2900....

Your 7.5" shorter than what is normally used in a 300 WSM, you will lose somewhere between 25-33 fps per inch. At that much of a shorter barrel you should be running a 180 right along @ 30/06 speeds.

Something in the hen house at quite right.

I'd be for thinking that you've either the fastest 30 cal tube in the world, and or your clock in giving you hinking readings. Or you're on the all time all star red line team and should really be thinking about pushing back from the scale a bit.

But, from reading your post I think you'll just take offense to this (when you should be taking note) so never mind. Powder River let er buck and don't forget to wear your safety glasses and helmet (just like when I lost my virginity...grins).

And if you care to clue us in what is your load that will allow you to run a 180 @ 2900 in a 16.5" tube?

Many thx and best of luck to ya!

Dober

[/quote].................Yes I have! And if you want that 20" Savage, you get it!! I will gladly take a very small velocity loss and in return gain an easier carrying, better handling, quicker to the target compact rifle. [/quote]


Now this part of your post I do concur with. I feel basically the same way, albeit I do know that it'll be a bit noisy and I know that from personal experience as I owned one a few years back.

It shoot great, handled great, but was more than a bit rough on the ears.

Dober

I run up just such a deal on very slightly used (10 shots) 16L Savage in .300 WSM. I got it and have had a blast with it ever since. Buy it and enjoy it!
Good shooting!
Marcus.

...............Dober!....A little skeptical are we now??...Ready for some fun?

Do you currently own a Ruger Frontier chambered in a 300 WSM?
If so, any chrony experience with one? Is the answer no to both by chance? Possibly?

If you feel that the hens in my hen house are a little out of order, or that my chrony is in the twilight zone or whacked out, I`ll do my best to line the hens up for you and have a word with my chrony to make sure its not sick! Kinda like getting all the ducks lined up in a row too?

Who says I should be only running at 30-06 speeds? How do you determine that? A loss of 25 to 33 fps per inch? With some rifles maybe!

First, I will refer you to please see "shootingtimes.com" then click on "long guns." Then scroll down to page 6 at the bottom and click. Then find the article entitled "Short Answer About Scout Style Rifles" by Dick Metcalf. Then go to the page 3 sub-heading within that article entitled "Short Barrel, Long Reach."

His Frontier, a 16.5" tubed test rifle in 7mm/08, propelled a 140 gr. factory bullet @ 2647 fps. That same identical 140 gr factory ammo from a 24" 7mm/08 rifle, chrony`d at 2770 fps. Well! Well! Lets do some math here! 2770-2647= a 123 fps difference, divide by the 7.5" for the barrel length difference and look what we have. 123 fps divided by 7.5" = a loss of 16.4 fps PER INCH, or an overall loss of 4.5%!...UH OH!.. Whooops! That`s from Dick Metcalf! He also says that ALL calibers chambered in the Frontier, will or should have similiar results!

Let`s go further shall we. Please go to "reloadersnest.com," then hit "rifles" then scroll down and find 300 WSM. There you`ll see a bunch of reloads, which can be duplicated..... And with some,,,I did exactly that!!

First, please find 150 gr. and click. Find load # 7544. From a 24" barreled 300 WSM, using 65.5 gr. W/760, what`s his velocity? I read 3255 fps. That exact same load in my Frontier chrony`d at 3118 fps on average. 3255-3118= 137 fps difference divided by the 7.5" of shorter barrel length = 18.26 fps per inch! Or an overall velocity loss of 4.21% when you do the math....How about another?.....This is fun!

Second! Please find 180 gr. and click. Find load # 10475. From that 24" barreled 300 WSM, using 69 gr. Rel 19, what velocity do you read? I read 3050 fps. That exact same load chrony`d 2917 fps on average from my Frontier. Let`s do the math again; 3050-2917=133 fps divide by 7.5" which = 17.73 fps per inch, or an overall velocity loss of 4.37%......Getting interesting for ya now? How about one more time shall we!

Third! Please find 200 gr, then find load # 10476. From this 24" barrel, I read 2930 fps using 68 gr of Rel 19. I chrony`d that exact load at 2811 fps on average. 2930-2811= 119 fps divide by 7.5" = 15.86 fps per inch or an overall loss of 4.07%.....

How are the hens in my hen house doing now?? Still a bit hinky??

BTW! We had a second back up chrony to verify the first!!....UH OH!.....Whooops again!

When you take all three loads and their percentages of loss and average them out, you come up with an overall loss in velocity of 4.216% from the loads that I duplicated. Metcalf`s percentage loss was what in that article?......4.5%!!!!!!!

Hey! Maybe those other 24" 300 WSMs were fast barrels too?? Right?

25 to 33 fps per inch? Well! Not in my case sir! In the examples above, if you calculate what,, as you say,, should be the loss from 25 to 33 fps per inch from their velocities given, you`d come up with an overall velocity loss of between 187.5 fps to 247.5 fps. That calculates to 5.75% to a possible 7.59% of overall loss for the 150 gr. A 6.14% to a possible 8.10% of overall loss for the 180 gr and 6.39% to a possible 8.44% of overall loss for the 200 grainer......Those percentages are TOTALLY IN-CONSISTENT with Metcalf`s chrony findings and mine as well. In fact, my findings are far more consistent and extremely closer with his vs your estimations.

Many have a tendancy to under-estimate the performance from the shorter barrels. I cannot speak for other cartridges, (except my 375 Ruger Alaskan`s ballistics from its 20" tube), but when it comes to the 300 WSM, its performance from the shorter tube, is outstanding! A great shorter barreled round in a handy 35.5" compact rifle, which BTW has some reeeeel good long range capability,,,wouldn`t you say?

BTW! They all grouped,,,,quite well!

Don`t worry. I didn`t take any offense. However! It`s just alot of fun presenting the facts!........Any questions?

And! Good luck to you too!

What are your handload details for the above load?

What chronograph are you using?

Thanks.

Thx 4 the morning chuckle.......

Now tell us what loads you're running.

Dober

..........There were two chronographs used; Competetion Electronics Pro Chrono Digital and a Shooting Chrony Beta Master.......The details to my above three loadings as I have stated and referenced, are there for all to see on "reloadersnest." under the "rifle" section and under "300 WSM."

Load # 7544 for the 150 grain
Load # 10475 for the 180 "
Load # 10476 for the 200 "

All details and the components listed there, were duplicated by me.

............Glad to have made your day with a little morning chuckle!..See my above post!.. It`s all there for ya! The load details which I duplicated, where to go to reference them and the Metcalf article which supports my results.

I guess you have a real difficult time in believing that 24" barreled 300 WSMs can really produce, in some rifles, about 3050 fps with a 180 gr bullet.

In turn, it seems you also have even more difficulty in fathoming that a 16.5" tubed 300 WSM, can produce, in some rifles, 95.5% of the total velocity of what the 24" ers can produce? Believe it or not, it is what it is!

Maybe too, you had a difficult time in believing that one of your other members here, recently posted on another thread his chrony results with a 24" 300 RSAUM, using 62 gr of Rel 17, behind a 180 grainer and getting 3150 fps?

The 300 WSM, as listed by Alliant`s loading data shows a max of 66 gr using the Rel 17. But then again, each individual rifle has its own tolerance for a max load, as well as its own velocity characteristics.

I`m sure that your chuckles will really increase, after I`m done playing around with some Rel 17?

I enjoy making people laugh!!.....Looking forward to it!

Me too....don't 4-get your glasses and helmet...

So how many grains of what do you run behind your 300 shorty?

Thx

Dober

Maybe too, you had a difficult time in believing that one of your other members here, recently posted on another thread his chrony results with a 24" 300 RSAUM, using 62 gr of Rel 17, behind a 180 grainer and getting 3150 fps?

[/quote]


This is just me but IMO the person running the above load shouldn't forget his glasses and or helmet either...but then again maybe R17 is a magical powder and it really can jump sane speeds by 250 fps...

Time will tell, but I for one feel that R17 will be good but after it's initial honey moon period that soome people will come back down to their senses...

Side note and this is just out of curiousity but you wouldn't happen to be in your late 20's-40 and under 5' 10" would you?

Thx

Dober

This is just me but IMO the person running the above load shouldn't forget his glasses and or helmet either...but then again maybe R17 is a magical powder and it really can jump sane speeds by 250 fps...

Time will tell, but I for one feel that R17 will be good but after it's initial honey moon period that soome people will come back down to their senses...

Side note and this is just out of curiousity but you wouldn't happen to be in your late 20's-40 and under 5' 10" would you?

Thx

Dober [/quote].............Who said anything about a person running "above load."...I`ve read about the new technology regarding the properties of RL 17.... It`s called "welcome to the 21st century" as new and better things come to be after research and development, which are then brought to the marketplace.....Sometimes, new things take some time to get use to, which as we all know, can disrupt some older school 20th century thinking!

As far as coming to their senses? You just want to try some RL 17 yourself and maybe a few other things before you assume things, criticize it, or slam it down ahead of time or even assume it can`t be done!

Although I wear glasses when shooting, I won`t be needing a helmet as you advise, to protect me from any recoil!!

As to your side note?... I happen to be 57 years old, w/35+ years of hunting and reloading experience and stand 6'3" tall and weigh 240 lbs., with 7% body fat!

"Big Squeeze" is my user name for a reason!

Too bad you live out of So. Calif. I`d be happy to invite you to the range. I`ll even cook up some of my .375 Ruger 300 gr. reloads for ya. Down here when the weather gets moderately warm and warmer, I shoot with a tank top on or just have one of my Hawaiian shirts on! With that criteria, would you prefer 40 rounds or 60 rounds for a one day session on the bench? Sorry, no lead sleddin or helmets allowed!

Why don't you just list the details here?

Why don't you just list the details here?

I'm sure we'd all like to learn what it is you're doing so we can avoid it...

Why don't you just list the details here?

I'm sure we'd all like to learn what it is you're doing so we can avoid it... [/quote]............For you? Why should I offer anything more other than what I`ve already given. I have already proven that what I have stated can be done, how it can be done, why and given references.

You on the other hand, as well as Doby or whoever, offer nothing more than opinions. You have offered absolutely nothing that can effectively dis-prove my shorter barreled chrony findings!

As you so eloquently add to your above post,,,"so we can avoid it",,,doesn`t appear to me, that if I offered anything more, that it would be appreciated. It would instead be mocked, be disputed and spun as garbage. So why should I offer you anything further, especially when you would wish to avoid it anyway!

So if you don`t mind, I choose not offer anything more.

I've loaded for FIVE 300 WSM's... 2,900 with a 180 (and your other loads) from a 16.5" barrel is absolutely the stupidest thing I've read on the dis-information net in years... the laws governing physics weren't suspended for your appearance on planet earth... if in fact that's where you're from.

...............You wouldn`t have the guts to call me liar to my face now would you? I`ll buy you the plane ticket for you to come down here and try. You wouldn`t finsh the sentence pal.

I don`t give a rip how many 300 WSM`s you have loaded for, fondled with or slept with.

Why don`t you go find a 300 WSM Ruger Frontier if you can, which were discontinued by Ruger for patent reasons, reload for it and chrony it.

Here`s another little tid bit for ya! When the site gets back up, go to "gunblast.com and find the 2/05 article when Jeff Quinn did a review of my same rifle. His best factory 180 grainer did 2796 fps. Who`s to say that in another Frontier, that same load couldn`t do 2850 or 2900.

Did it ever occur to you that some barrels are just faster than others by maybe an aditional 50-100 fps when firing the same identical loads. Maybe my "smith" who told me that, is lying too?

Were those who submitted loads on "reloaders nest" who got 3050 fps and more with a 180 grainer lying too!

Was Dick Metcalf lying when he reported a 4.5% reduction
in velocity from a barrel 7.5" shorter when compared to a 24" er?

You can call it stupid, dis-information, lying or anything you damn well please and rant and rave all you want to.

But one thing is for sure! You can`t come up with anything to counter me or dis-prove me.

Until you go and get a 300 WSM Frontier for yourself, experiment with reloads and chrony it, you`re nothing more than an idiot trying to make a case based on an opinion of dis-belief rather than offer anything else or do your damn reading and research!

Seriously Squeeze, if you're 6'3" and 240 doesn't that lil gun seem sort of like it's from a boxc of cracker jacks?

I mean really I am 6'1" and 210 and I couldn't fathom working with such a lil rifle. Now my 9 year old Grandson sure, but guys our size...? Like I said somethings wrong in the hen house.

And what's your 180 grain load? Go ahead just stick it up here it no big deal to do so.

As for shooting your 375 Ruger with the 300's not me man! I hate and can't handle recoil much over a 270 so no way would you get me shooting that rig...

Doby

Perhaps it's a typo but those loads are all from a 24" barreled M70?


Added:
Nevermind, figured it out(I think).
Those are the loads you are shooting out of your 16.5" barrel.

Any 300 I own with have the classic 26 inch tube..My 300 Win. now belonging to my son and my old 300 H&H all have 26 inch tubes..if I want a short tube then I will opt for a different caliber like a .308, 270 or 06..The 270 btw handles short barrels surprisingly well, better than most calibers I have tried.