Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 20 vs. 12 gauge Which is more powerful for self-defense against humans/bear?

You're going to look very ridiculous, and feel worse, traipsing through the woods with all that detritus and no food, especially the three firearms and a bow. And forget the ka-bar unless you want to make a low budget movie.

I would not worry about grizzly bears coming over the border from Wyoming. You're in more danger from getting hit by a meteor from outer space.

By the way, what's an SAS book?

Amen.

Hmmm...good answers here for the most part. A real breakdown of society??? Probably not real likely but anything is certainly possible. The next to last thing I'd want to do is leave my home. If I had to do that, I'd want to load up my pickup with a good supply of fresh water & as much fishing/hunting/camping gear/fuel/supplies/tools...(toilet paper).. etc. that it could carry. Along with my travel trailer if possible. I'd try to let my hunting buddies know I was taking off & probably conspire with them on the best place to go & if it was that bad, band together & head out. I doubt I'd ever grab a pack & a gun & take off though. If it got that bad I'd probably end up dying, defending my home...12 ga. #4 buckshot for close in (It'll kill any bear or human I've ever seen)& an accurate centerfire for anything past the shotguns range. Prolly my .257 bee with the almighty 100 gr. TSX...

Die defending home and familly. A note on GPS,post SHTF will it be dead weight ? Do you think ole big bro will allow acess? I wonder if people who geocashe Have thought about that.

There is no way in heck that that buckshot would kill quicker than a slug......no way!
I cant imagine anyone shooting a deer with a slug and saying they were not impressed with the results.
I have a ton of experience with slugs and I will tell you there is not much in the way of game that a slug wont take down.

Even within 40 yds. with a full choke? I'm not sayin or even suggesting a slug wouldn't work...In fact it might be the best choice for the first round, but if I had a MAD bear/leopard/human heading towards me with bad intentions I'd prefer buckshot ANY day. More room for error.

even 000 buck is pretty weak medicine without multiple hits... a heavy leather coat can pretty well stop 4 buck past 50 yards... penetration may occur, but what little energy it carries is pretty well depleted...

i hear of many guys claiming great success on coyotes with 4 buck... hunt with them and they have a list of excuses, in my experience...
a very good friend had an 870 wingmaster with some super choke or other... claimed it shot like a rifle... after he emptied his gun at a coyote without any evidence of a hit i went to the machine shed and got out an old paint bucket... at 40 yds with one shot fired the bucket suffered one grazing hit from a 3" plated, buffered load of 4 buck.....

if i were shooting buckshot for defensive use i'd severely restrict my range, use 000 buck, and pattern the load/gun combo... my max range would be limited to where i could regularly place 4-5 holes on a paper plate sized target.....

And thats why I like my semiauto slug guns, you can crack 5 shots off quicker than anybody can imagine......just listen to them during deer season once.

No arguement here... #4 bucksot will generally give me at least 3 hits at 40 with a modified choke...with regular steel #4 birdshot it actually patterns tighter than my full choke. I've never tried 000...always figured more was better, could be wrong though...wouldn't be the first time.

Jeepers:

It would be real easy to make fun of all this, but I'm going to restrain myself.

You're not being anywhere near rational, friend. You've got some idea that S will HTF all at once and in the uproar of the moment, all the roads will be blocked with panicky city-folk and you'll just throw all that crap on your back and hike into hills to live off the land.

It doesn't work like that. S doesn't HTF all at once. (Unless it's thermonuclear war, and if it's that, you might as well just shoot yourself in the head.) Whatever breakdown you think may happen in society would happen over months, if not years. Plenty of time to drive to where you want to go.

You want to prepare now for SHTF? Buy a couple of acres in the mountains. Park a trailer or build a small cabin on it. Put in a well. Clear some of it in preparation for planting vegetables. Buy a subscription to Mother Earth News.

And as a back-up plan, marry a Canadian woman.

You will be better off and better prepared.

- Tom

actually, if i'm shooting buckshot, it's only because i can't get my hands on decent slug loads...
count me as a fan of the brenneke classic 12 ga.
any time.. any where... any thing....

I've killed several deer with the Winchester super-x 1 oz foster type slug load. Great for deer, but I gave the coup-de-gras to a small buck from about two feet away. The 12 gauge slug went in, shattered his vertebrea just below his head, and did not exit. Again small buck, total penetration maybe 6-7 inches including the back bone. Now I believe real world experience trumps all, and if you someone else has had a better experience with these type of soft slugs then have at it. But that experience nixed the slugs for me in bear country.

A slug at maximum speed hitting a large bone and stopping is not that bad. I have found a number of slugs under the hide on several moose shot on the local military bases during their special hunts. Clearly poachers are not getting the kinds of results they hope for.

In the case of bears at very close range having a slug would not bother me. Having a wildass idea that SHTF thinking like this is not funny, would bother me...

i would not elect to use a foster type slug for anything much tougher than a deer...

Thankfully there is much better choices in shotgun slugs nowadays.

3 hits with #4 buckshot will be much less than impressive. The size of the shot is .25 caliber. Pellet weight and velocity will be less than a .25 auto; so I think your performance will leave you rather underwhelmed.

Shotguns with buckshot start to drop off in the power/penetration department severely past 25-30 yards. Defensive shots past 25 yards, rarely result in a bad guy dropping. Inside of that range, stopping an aggressor is almost assured.

If you need to reach out past 25 yards, it's best to go wtih slugs. And if you're going to need to use slugs a lot, you're much better off having a rifle.

To each his own, if I can't have a rifle then it will be double 0 buck for me for stopping dangerous up close, and I base that on stopping and seeing several animals stopped including Lion and Leopard..I have absolutly no use for slugs, but anyone that wants to use slugs is fine with me.

My good friend, the late George Hoffman of .416 fame and an old time African PH, who wrote the book A Country Boy In Africa, loved the shotgun full of 00 buck shot for stopping any animal short of Rhino and Elephant for up close confrontations, and he used that gun for over 40 years, stopped more than a few Leopard and Lions in charge situations. A male African Lion is a tougher animal than a bear IMO.

Bottom line with me is a a shot gun works best on birds.

I agree with Kevin and atkinson.

Shotguns, in trained hands are great tools.

However, I like shotguns for defense becuase range is limited.

Every shot has a grand jury following behind it.

Most of us cannot get away with 100 yard "Defensive" shots.

BMT

Could consolidate and use that 5lb. frying pan for bear defense as well.

Travis

Again, I'd have to vote against the frying pan. When I was a Paramedic, I treated a gentleman who had a spat with his significant other (in this case, another gentleman), and the significant other BROKE a 5lb cast iron frying pan over his head. He was instantly stopped, but when he got up, he was ready to scratch the others eyes out:)