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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 73,096 |
It is a real neat tour, been through it several times. Now for the human interest, my Dad helped move it to it's original location at he museum way back when. He was a Union laborer at the time working on his Plumbers apprenticeship.
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895 |
For you guys interested in Subs, I highly recommend the 1981 German film "Das Boot"... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_BootNot your usual gung-ho war film, more like a documentry, the realism is aboslutely gripping..
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,175 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,175 Likes: 3 |
NEAT PIX, JOG... Was that taken in Perth? I thought your sub was a nuke boat. I didn't know the Razorback was a diesel/electric boat. Nope, no nuke boat. Diesel/electric, built in '43 and commissioned in 1944 along with the two others in her 'build' area, Redfish (SS-395) and Ronquil (SS-396).. I found a book at Borders about amonth ago, rather large, titled just 'Submarines'.. On one of the pages there's a picture of those three boats being built side-by-side in their cradles.. They gave up that type of construction because it was too crowded for the workers. The Redfish kept the original WWII look like the Char that JOG posted.. Something to do with the keel allegedly being off-kilter due to an earlier depth charging in the later days of WWII. The Razorback underwent the conversion to Guppy III a few years before I got on board.. The DVD even cover some of the Sea wolf supposedly one our news and fastest subs. Also about the stealthiest too. And BIG. Big, yes, for a hunter-killer (SSN).. But not nearly as large as the Ohio class of SSBNs..
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 907
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 907 |
Neat time-lapse view of how they did it. There's also a GATO class US sub (USS COBIA) up in Manitowoc at the Wisconsin Maritime Museum. They've restored her to 1945 state and run tours through the sub & museum year round. I got the chance to overnight on the Cobia in the middle of winter a few years ago with my oldest boy & his scout troop. Bunked in the aft torpedo room and smelled of diesel for a day or two afterwards. Awesome experience and I'd do it again in a heartbeat if given the opportunity.
B.I.C.
'tikka
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,175 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,175 Likes: 3 |
I've been on the Cobia a few years ago.. It is mostly intact save the crews mess in the AB compartment and some other equipment that was removed during the conversion to tour boat (so as to better accomodate access for tourists), but I agree it's mostly there... IIRC there's now steps down into the boat where the forward torpedo loading skid used to reside. When we did some tourist days in SD, we didn't have 'steps'. It was the original ladders only.. And to keep people from slipping and potentially falling down into the lower decks we had to have two men stationed near the bow in the forward escape trunk. One in the trunk, one directly below.. The guys would actively press for that duty.. Think of California babes in short skirts coming down a vertical ladder in full view of a couple of sailers.. Ahhhh, the good old days.. 
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,134
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,134 |
Big, yes, for a hunter-killer (SSN).. But not nearly as large as the Ohio class of SSBNs.. I took a tour of the USS Georgia, an Ohio class SSBN, several years ago in Bangor. I was stunned at how big they are, displacing more water than a WWII cruiser. The berthing was better than that on a Nimitz class carrier, especially for the younger troops.
If something on the internet makes you angry the odds are you're being manipulated
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 54,842 |
I don't care what anyone says, if ya ride in a tin can under water your nuts, and that goes for you especially Redneck. 
Back in the heartland, Thank God!
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
So Redneck is that the Guppy look in your picture?
Was the Guppy conversion sort of between the WWII style of sub and what eventually became the nuke style? I know in the DVD they showed a number of hull styles between the diesel/electric and the final nuke look we are all familiar with today. I guess they are always trying to find the ultimate body configuration that allows the maximum speed and stealth.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,789 Likes: 23
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,789 Likes: 23 |
If I ever got to Chicago I'd love to take the tour. I have been through the USS Panpanito up in SF, I'd love to compare a German U-Boat Moving the 505 Cool. Those men working underneath it must have had lots of confidence in the technology holding that thing up.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,547
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,547 |
Guppy Conversion GUPPY
The Greater Underwater Propulsion Power Program (GUPPP) was initiated by the United States Navy after World War II. Like all programs in the military, some sort of "name" needed to be applied that would attract and hold attention. Since GUPPP didn't sound quite right, the third P was dropped and a Y added. Thus the word GUPPY, which had a far better ring to it since it did in fact sound more like a fish. At this time all submarines were named after undersea life.
The GUPPY was an extensive conversion that gave fleet boats a snorkel, a more streamlined hull, much greater battery capacity, and a BQR 2. There were a total of 50 GUPPY conversions made between 1946 and 1960. The GUPPYs were the best that the submarine force could do and still maintain a reasonable force structure. They had improved ASW capabilities and were far more survivable than standard World War II fleet boats, but reflected the limits of both money and technology, particularly before Korea and the two nuclear revolutions.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
Thanks JOG.
I hear that there are companies building highly sophisticated diesel/electric boats today designed for coastal defense such as what Israel needs that are nuke weapon capable. Any truth to that do you think?
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,547 |
The little knowledge I have of submarines ends around 1945. 
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,222
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,222 |
Since we are talking submarines, I recommend two of the best books i have ever read on the subject.
"Iron Coffins" by Herbert A Werner (ex-U-Boat captain) takes you through the German sub service from the "happy time" to trying to ride out on the tides as to not get sunk by the allies. We became so good in the Atlantic that through the use of escort carriers and radar, and German u-boat couldn't even raise their snorkels to charge their batteries without an allied aircraft showing up within ten minutes.
"Blind Man's Bluff" is a great book that takes the reader through the years after the war and the cat mouse games with the Soviet Union, some great stories in there.
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Joined: May 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 10,449 |
Good stuff here. Was on the Pampanito in 2004. The wife sat on the dock, as she's a bit claustrophobic. I told her it was a good choice. How those guys lived and fought in that space is remarkable.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing."
Robert E. Howard
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,222
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,222 |
Good stuff here. Was on the Pampanito in 2004. The wife sat on the dock, as she's a bit claustrophobic. I told her it was a good choice. How those guys lived and fought in that space is remarkable. Did you hit Alcatraz too?
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,547
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,547 |
No doubt. Earlier I mentioned the US submariner death rate of 1 out of 5 (20%) being the highest in US Military service, the U-boat death rate was 77%. More than 3 out of 4 never made it home. That death rate is said to be the highest in modern warfare. The typical sinking of a submarine isn't very dramatic - the boat just disappears, no SOS, no explosions, no smoke or fire. Lost submarines and their sailors are said to be "on eternal patrol".
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 296
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 296 |
Since we are talking submarines, I recommend two of the best books i have ever read on the subject.
"Iron Coffins" by Herbert A Werner (ex-U-Boat captain) takes you through the German sub service from the "happy time" to trying to ride out on the tides as to not get sunk by the allies. We became so good in the Atlantic that through the use of escort carriers and radar, and German u-boat couldn't even raise their snorkels to charge their batteries without an allied aircraft showing up within ten minutes.
"Blind Man's Bluff" is a great book that takes the reader through the years after the war and the cat mouse games with the Soviet Union, some great stories in there. +1 on the books mentioned above. Another good book (IMO) is: "Pig Boats: The true story of the fighting submariners of World War II (Bantam war books)", by Theodore Roscoe (ISBN 0-553-13040-4).
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
For a real good read on the capture of U-505 read Admiral Gallery's account. He was the skipper of the carrier that captured it. Great story. His works of fiction will keey you in tears laughing.
Been on several Ohio class. Spent about twelve years of reserve time helping keep then quiet.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,134
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,134 |
For a real good read on the capture of U-505 read Admiral Gallery's account. He was the skipper of the carrier that captured it. Great story. His works of fiction will keey you in tears laughing.
One of the amazing things about that capture is that at least 1000 or more people saw it happen and were told not speak a word of it for the good of the war effort and none of them did it remained a secret that we had succeeded in capturing a U-Boat and it's codes until well after the war. Today someone would have been on the internet or TV in ten minutes seeking their ten minutes of fame.
If something on the internet makes you angry the odds are you're being manipulated
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
You are right on about today being a different attitude. Today no one cares about anything but themselves. Loose lips don't sink ships. Loose lips pay kickbacks from reporters.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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