Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Group Buy for Barrel Blanks.

OK folks, here is some additional information from a couple of barrel makers I contacted regarding the possibilities for a Group Buy on Barrel Blanks. The two makers are Pac-Nor and Lothar-Walther. Both are receptive to this idea and have done similar projects like this in the past, so they are aware of how these things work. Here are some details on options and pricing:

� Pricing - Both offer a 20% volume discount on their respective contoured Barrel Blanks for an order of 20+ units. Pac-Nor has two different barrel grades (at different prices) and their pricing is different for stainless vs. chrome-moly. L-W does one grade of barrel and price and it does not matter what material is chosen. L-W�s pricing does change depending on bbl. diameter and length. I have supplied links to both company�s websites at the bottom of this post. This should answer any questions concerning their respective prices.
� Options � Options are wide open and you can specify anything that is available and offered. There are some basic pieces of information that will be required: material (chrome-moly or stainless), contour, twist rate, caliber, # of grooves, and finished bbl. length. A couple of important things here � for those looking to match a factory contour or for a custom contour, please let me know. This will certainly complicate things and definitely add cost and time. Can be done but will, most likely, require you shipping the barrel you are looking to duplicate to the manufacturer on your dime. For those who are looking for additional gunsmithing services (chambering, threading, crowning, flutes, etc.), these can be provided but at additional cost and time. In comparing the two, L-W offers many more contours and, for example, you could get an octagonal barrel with an integral quarter rib from them, if that�s what you want.
� Lead Time � Lead Time would run around 8-10 weeks once the order is placed. Of course, depending on the exact number of Barrel Blanks, this could be subject to change. All of the barrels would be made at one time and shipped together. An important detail on shipping: Neither company is willing to ship things individually to each person. This presents too much of a logistical hassle for them and they do not want to deal with it. The order would have to be sent to one location and then shipped again to every individual. Thus, shipping costs would need to be charged twice (per blank). This can discussed in more depth as things become more clear.

Please bear in mind that this information is exploratory and I am positive there will be some things that pop-up, if this proceeds. I have purchased barrels from both of these makers and have been very pleased with their quality and customer service. They also seem to be the two that offer the most options and combinations and that should be a consideration, IMO. They both use the button-rifling method but if there are some folks that would prefer cut-rifled barrels, I am open to hearing alternatives and suggestions. To me, the next logical step would be to settle on a manufacturer and then start setting some guide-lines for the order.

Let�s discuss . . .

Lothar-Walther

Pac-Nor

i appreciate the effort pinotguy, but having to reship barrels eliminates a large part of the savings of the group buy...

i ordered my barrel 15 minutes ago...

fwiw, i went with pac-nor on the 'smiths recommend.....

20% off can easily be $50-60. I shipped a heavy #7 barrel to AK a few weeks ago and it was $12. I'm no mathmetician, but that's about a $40-$50 savings.

Before you fellas consider Lothar-Walther, talk to your 'smiths.

LW barrels are hard on reamers, some 'smiths don't care for them. One 'smith charges extra for rebarreling LW barrels due to the excessive reamer wear they cause.

MtnHtr

?? Are they made of a tougher steel?

Not that I have a dog in the hunt, but you might give Mike Rock a call. They make some of the top barrels out there and I believe had done group buys in the past. They're also very good to deal with.

I would second Mike Rock. His 30 cal barrels are very hard to beat.

Rock just finished up a group buy....but they seem to be slow getting barrels out. A pard ordered barrels a while ago and they were supposed to be delivered before Christmas....he's still waiting. I can't imagine the group buy they just took orders for will be delivered any time soon.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=865815&page=3

The Group buy has been closed since Jan 1 and guys still haven't even received confirmation on their orders.....Glad I sat this one out.

OK guys, I'm fine with Rock Creek but they don't seem to offer the selection of calibers that other makers do. I don't doubt their quality but not everybody is in the market for a .30 or 7mm barrel. There are other things out there and I don't think people who have projects in mind that are outside of the "basics" should necessarily be excluded, assuming this Group Buy gets off the ground.

FWIW and based on my experiences, if you go .308 go Rock, its a no brainer. I've a 308 and 300 Win Mag to prove it. However, I've order two non-.308 caliber barrels, never to hear back from them again. Point being, I'd be leary of a group buy with Rock unless it involved nothing but .308's

Lothar Walter uses different steel for their barrels. I have never chambered one so I can't comment on it personally but I have read where some people had to get a practice stubb to see how fast to set their rpms for reaming.

My 340 Wby is built on a Rock and it is fantastic. As far as I know they'll run about any caliber within reason, just do a lot of military and police work. Call and talk to Mike and I don't think you'll have any problems. Pacnor is great too, I've had a couple of great pacnor barrels so have no problems with them either, but I wouldn't mess with LW cause so many smiths don't like to work 'em.

Some interesting and telling responses so far. Using the interest from the other thread as a gauge, I would have thought there would have been a lot more enthusiasm for a Group Buy. It seems the consensus is definitely leaning toward Pac-Nor as opposed to Lothar-Walther. No problems with that on my end but I am genuinely curious concerning this issue. Firstly, can anyone provide first-hand experience with the machining problems associated with L-W's barrels? If there are some 'smiths out there who can speak with some authority, I'd love to hear what they have to say. Secondly, it seems odd that with the negative sentiment surrounding L-W's barrels, they have managed to remain in business for so long. If they are manufacturing such a problematic and troublesome product, why are they the OEM barrel maker for firms like Westley-Richards? I cannot imagine a firm like W-R would tolerate such inferiorly made barrels on their firearms.

Rock Creek also seems to be garnering quite a bit of interest so I will contact them on Monday. I certainly do not have any problem going with them. Hopefully they are willing to work with us and can offer the same number of options as Pac-Nor and L-W.

Please keep the comments and concerns coming. I still think this would be a great opportunity for members here to move some projects to the "front burner".

Don't know that I've ever heard LW referred to as inferior, but have had the same comments from smiths regarding them workin' reamers more...

I'll state it again, check with your 'smiths. Most 'smiths are using established methods when rebarreling. What rpm works great for a Lilja, Pac-Nor or Rock will not work as well with a L-W. The steel L-W uses is very hard, and tough on reamers regardless.

L-W barrels are very accurate, it's just alot of 'smiths won't or don't like using them. Talk to your 'smith.

MtnHtr

.....Lothar Walther uses harder steel than commonly found, and they do require slower machining work. The finished barrel would top notch, but many smiths don't like the wear and tear on thier tools, or the extra time required for properly working with such hard material. Westley Richards "CHOOSES" to offer these barrels on thier high end products, that is a statement in itself.....If L-W barrels are properly machined, you have as fine and durable a barrel as can be had today.

I would be in for a barrel or 2 on a Pac-Nor group buy. Also like the idea of a Rock, but either is fine.

This project would be like herding cats. It might work okay on a group action buy where the options are somewhat or a lot more limited. Best of luck on this beast.

I agree with Hawken54. You will swear off ever doing it again. If it were me in your shoes, I would contact Kim LeHew at www.accuracyarms.com. You can get a Shilen stainless matchgrade barrel for $210 including shipping. You won't find a nicer guy to deal with. He gunshows on the weekend, so catch him in the shop Mon.-Thurs.
LW50 stainless is probably 17-4 and requires much higher feed and speed to chamber. It is a little gummy.
Butch

Pac Nor is easy to deal with...no brainer.