|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,790
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,790 |
How does a person obtain an FFL, and what is the cost?
I'm having a devil of a time getting routine transfers done, and would like to know the pro's and con's.
Jeff
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,790
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,790 |
info This looks like a good start.
Jeff
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,237
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,237 |
Good post - Also go to the BATF and order the various applications.
I did last week, now lets see how slow those wheels turn.
Ignorance is not confined to uneducated people.
WHO IS JOHN GALT? LIBERTY!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 8,625
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 8,625 |
process takes about 6 to 9 months all together
DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR
I LOVE MY COUNTRY IT'S THE GOV'T I FEAR
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,239
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,239 |
Of interest to potential FFL holders....
You should keep all of your aquired firearms, the ones that will be in your "bound book" for record keeping which is mandatory, seperate from your current or family aquired firearms. The reason is, WHEN they come to inspect your books they can and probably will verify all firearms that aren't logged out, ie sold, and are still in your inventory. One of the biggest violations they look for are discrepencies in your book, ie you sold one and forgot to dros it out ..... ie illegal sales of firearms violation... a felony.
So, from an ex FFL type 1 holder, the biggest detractor is they have every right to "INSPECT" your business premises, and BTW you will need to obtain a Business license and a resale number.I gave up my business license, and also relinquished my type 1 due to local laws change. Anti-gun officials made it difficult and costly to continue business, so I gave in....
As a side note I am currently a type 3 dealer, ie Curio and Relic firearms, so no background issues exist. I carry a fairly high DOE security clearance, so no past background issues exist....
Hope this information helps. It surely isn't a license many wish to open themselves up to for law enforcement reasons... not necessarily due to background issues, but for the RIGHTS you give up being a type 1 ffl licensee.
Allen
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3 |
Unless you're getting into the business I don't think they'll allow you to get one.. You have to have a reason other than you 'want' one..
The cost is enough also that you will most likely be better off using an existing dealer.. Then there's insurance to think about.. Plus you sign away your Fourth Amendment rights when you're approved..
IIWY, I'd pass..
JMHO..
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,790
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,790 |
Unless you're getting into the business I don't think they'll allow you to get one.. I'm coming to that conclusion. Still can't believe the problems I'm having with a simple transfer of a rifle. In the words of Charlie Brown "Good Grief".
Jeff
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,790
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,790 |
Hope this information helps. It's not what I wanted to hear, but it did help. I spent some time digging around on this today, as Redneck indicates, if I can't show firearms as a primary source of business income, it's doubtful to illegal that I can obtain an FFL. Nothing like a free country, or not being infringed ...pffft.
Jeff
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,674 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,674 Likes: 2 |
"... if I can't show firearms as a primary source of business income, it's doubtful to illegal that I can obtain an FFL."
Not even close to true at the federal level. Your state may have issues around that but there are lots of valid reasons to have an FFL beyond direct income. Business generated for other sales by firearm buyers, is an example. Margins on guns make it tough to make much on them... Accesories are where most dealers make their profits.
Last edited by Sitka deer; 02/07/09. Reason: I'm two tense...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,790
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,790 |
From the link provided above. I'm getting answers from sevaral sources that indicate you have to be able to demonstrate "livelihood". The Gun Control Act, as amended by The Firearms Owners` Protection Act of 1986 (P.L. 99-308), requires that persons engaged in the business of dealing in, manufacturing, or importing firearms, or manufacturing or importing ammunition, obtain a Federal Firearms License (FFL).
Jeff
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,790
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,790 |
"Under the Gun Control Act, a "dealer" is defined as any person who is "engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail," "repairing firearms," or "making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms," or who is a pawnbroker. As applied to a dealer, the term "engaged in the business" refers to "a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of obtaining livelihood through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms."
Jeff
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,239
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,239 |
Those are general terms, possible added to reduce or help the selection process when the law was written. I obtained my type 1 ffl dealers license in 1985 while I worked at the DOE facility, but I doubt that had anything to do with them accepting my application. I did add "gunsmithing" after reading what you posted, but did so in case the state license was an issue.
I agree, at least back in the 80's, most retail sellers were making 20% markup, I charged 10%. You will not make a living, or even supplement one if all you do is sell firearms, although in Ca the fee's charged for out of state transfers is a scam.
I never advertised, and only sold to myself, family and co-workers who also had clean backgrounds. Only had one visit from BATF in the 10 years I had the license. I would not back down from obtaining one for the reasons you posted, but it is expensive, costly, and as stated puts you in a different position as far as your rights.
Allen
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,268
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,268 |
The ATF has really cracked down lately on people who get an FFL for personal use only.
Otto is my co-pilot.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3 |
When the ATF's agent did the interview when I applied for my license I was told I had to (1) have approval from the town or county for the business (in my case; St. Croix County Zoning Office, which has much more power than God OR Obama), (2) had to obtain a 'sellers permit' from the State of TAX HELL WISCONSIN, (3) provide a minimum of $1,000,000 of liability insurance and (4) have a seperate business location (i.e., shop and/or retail store) from the rest of the house.. Lacking any of those four items I would not be approved..
C&R licenses are much easier to obtain..
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,239
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,239 |
Wow
Sounds like the rules have changed substantially since I got mine, IE the insurance and seperate building.
And yes, the city/ county has what seems like as much power as a Judge when it comes to these matters....
Allen
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,581
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,581 |
They changed it some time ago to eliminate the kitchen table dealers, and made it more difficult for applicants with the separate location and other little things. All in the name of eliminating dealers. I think it costs $300 for three years now.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,187 Likes: 3 |
Wow
Sounds like the rules have changed substantially since I got mine, IE the insurance and seperate building.
Just to clarify.. I didn't say 'building', I said 'business location'.. In my instance they approved me since I built one new dedicated metalworking/general shop (still attached to the house) and converted one of the four garage stalls to a woodworking/reloading shop.. These areas are dedicated for the business only and are not for other uses.. SCCZO wouldn't give me a permit if these were NOT attached to the house. If they would have been seperate, the FFL would have been easier but then SCCZO would have had me do a zillion other things in order to approve a business out here and it would have cost megabux.. This spot is zoned Ag/Residential.. It was a typical government nightmare in this TAX HELL to get authorization to start this up.. I'm just waiting for the anti-gunrange 'neighbors' to the south of me to start whining about gunfire.. So far, I'm ok.. But I can't wait until spring of 2010 to get the hell OUTTA here and move to a more gun-friendly state with tons less restrictions, laws and regulations.. Another note.. Homeowners' insurance will NOT cover any part of this business OR the areas it's operated in.. I.e., seperate fire/theft etc., must be obtained for the sq. footage used by the business... Just more bull-Pelosi...
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,581
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,581 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,342
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,342 |
I believe you can be denied your FFL if the address for your permit is not zoned for a commercial operation. Another of the "vague" requirements.
Imagine your grave on a windy winter night. You've been dead for 70 years. It's been 50 since a visitor last paused at your tombstone..... Now explain why you're in a pissy mood today.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 552
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 552 |
I have been thinking about this too. What are the requirments for C&R, and what exactly defines "C&R"? Thanks
If anything I state appears to be medical advice, I am not a doctor; be sure to contact your family physician before making any changes in your medical regimine.
|
|
|
|
398 members (22kHornet, 1beaver_shooter, 160user, 06hunter59, 1Longbow, 1badf350, 34 invisible),
2,562
guests, and
1,106
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,783
Posts18,536,251
Members74,041
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|