Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire FFL

How does a person obtain an FFL, and what is the cost?

I'm having a devil of a time getting routine transfers done, and would like to know the pro's and con's.

info


This looks like a good start.

Good post - Also go to the BATF and order the various applications.

I did last week, now lets see how slow those wheels turn.

process takes about 6 to 9 months all together

Of interest to potential FFL holders....

You should keep all of your aquired firearms, the ones that will be in your "bound book" for record keeping which is mandatory, seperate from your current or family aquired firearms. The reason is, WHEN they come to inspect your books they can and probably will verify all firearms that aren't logged out, ie sold, and are still in your inventory. One of the biggest violations they look for are discrepencies in your book, ie you sold one and forgot to dros it out ..... ie illegal sales of firearms violation... a felony.

So, from an ex FFL type 1 holder, the biggest detractor is they have every right to "INSPECT" your business premises, and BTW you will need to obtain a Business license and a resale number.I gave up my business license, and also relinquished my type 1 due to local laws change. Anti-gun officials made it difficult and costly to continue business, so I gave in....

As a side note I am currently a type 3 dealer, ie Curio and Relic firearms, so no background issues exist. I carry a fairly high DOE security clearance, so no past background issues exist....

Hope this information helps. It surely isn't a license many wish to open themselves up to for law enforcement reasons... not necessarily due to background issues, but for the RIGHTS you give up being a type 1 ffl licensee.

Allen

Unless you're getting into the business I don't think they'll allow you to get one.. You have to have a reason other than you 'want' one..

The cost is enough also that you will most likely be better off using an existing dealer.. Then there's insurance to think about.. Plus you sign away your Fourth Amendment rights when you're approved..

IIWY, I'd pass..

JMHO..

I'm coming to that conclusion.

Still can't believe the problems I'm having with a simple transfer of a rifle. In the words of Charlie Brown "Good Grief".

It's not what I wanted to hear, but it did help. I spent some time digging around on this today, as Redneck indicates, if I can't show firearms as a primary source of business income, it's doubtful to illegal that I can obtain an FFL.

Nothing like a free country, or not being infringed ...pffft.

"... if I can't show firearms as a primary source of business income, it's doubtful to illegal that I can obtain an FFL."

Not even close to true at the federal level. Your state may have issues around that but there are lots of valid reasons to have an FFL beyond direct income. Business generated for other sales by firearm buyers, is an example. Margins on guns make it tough to make much on them... Accesories are where most dealers make their profits.

From the link provided above. I'm getting answers from sevaral sources that indicate you have to be able to demonstrate "livelihood".

"Under the Gun Control Act, a "dealer" is defined as any person who is "engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail," "repairing firearms," or "making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms," or who is a pawnbroker. As applied to a dealer, the term "engaged in the business" refers to "a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of obtaining livelihood through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms."

Those are general terms, possible added to reduce or help the selection process when the law was written. I obtained my type 1 ffl dealers license in 1985 while I worked at the DOE facility, but I doubt that had anything to do with them accepting my application. I did add "gunsmithing" after reading what you posted, but did so in case the state license was an issue.

I agree, at least back in the 80's, most retail sellers were making 20% markup, I charged 10%. You will not make a living, or even supplement one if all you do is sell firearms, although in Ca the fee's charged for out of state transfers is a scam.

I never advertised, and only sold to myself, family and co-workers who also had clean backgrounds. Only had one visit from BATF in the 10 years I had the license. I would not back down from obtaining one for the reasons you posted, but it is expensive, costly, and as stated puts you in a different position as far as your rights.

Allen

The ATF has really cracked down lately on people who get an FFL for personal use only.

When the ATF's agent did the interview when I applied for my license I was told I had to (1) have approval from the town or county for the business (in my case; St. Croix County Zoning Office, which has much more power than God OR Obama), (2) had to obtain a 'sellers permit' from the State of TAX HELL WISCONSIN, (3) provide a minimum of $1,000,000 of liability insurance and (4) have a seperate business location (i.e., shop and/or retail store) from the rest of the house.. Lacking any of those four items I would not be approved..

C&R licenses are much easier to obtain..

Wow

Sounds like the rules have changed substantially since I got mine, IE the insurance and seperate building.

And yes, the city/ county has what seems like as much power as a Judge when it comes to these matters....

Allen

They changed it some time ago to eliminate the kitchen table dealers, and made it more difficult for applicants with the separate location and other little things. All in the name of eliminating dealers. I think it costs $300 for three years now.

Just to clarify.. I didn't say 'building', I said 'business location'.. In my instance they approved me since I built one new dedicated metalworking/general shop (still attached to the house) and converted one of the four garage stalls to a woodworking/reloading shop.. These areas are dedicated for the business only and are not for other uses..

SCCZO wouldn't give me a permit if these were NOT attached to the house. If they would have been seperate, the FFL would have been easier but then SCCZO would have had me do a zillion other things in order to approve a business out here and it would have cost megabux.. This spot is zoned Ag/Residential.. It was a typical government nightmare in this TAX HELL to get authorization to start this up.. I'm just waiting for the anti-gunrange 'neighbors' to the south of me to start whining about gunfire.. So far, I'm ok.. But I can't wait until spring of 2010 to get the hell OUTTA here and move to a more gun-friendly state with tons less restrictions, laws and regulations..

Another note.. Homeowners' insurance will NOT cover any part of this business OR the areas it's operated in.. I.e., seperate fire/theft etc., must be obtained for the sq. footage used by the business... Just more bull-Pelosi...

Ditto on that.

I believe you can be denied your FFL if the address for your permit is not zoned for a commercial operation. Another of the "vague" requirements.

I have been thinking about this too. What are the requirments for C&R, and what exactly defines "C&R"?
Thanks