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Campfire Outfitter
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It is difficult to engage a Democrat in a civil discussion. I find great pleasure in politely baiting them into their all too familiar vulgar personal attacks. Ken in Oregon
�Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program." -- Milton Friedman
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Campfire Outfitter
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Considering Pennsylvania's anti-gun Governor, I guess we can assume such things aren't as important to PA boys.
Yeah, we've got the rest of you beat with the biggest panzy liberal governor in the country. Now if we could get rid of Pittsburgh and Philly, we'd be a very red state.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Dinglebarry is holding the trump card for the next 4 years. All he has to say is, "It's Bush's fault."
"I Birn Quhil I Se" MacLeod of Lewis
I Burn While I See
Hold Fast MacLeod of Harris
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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. Obama seems to want all citizens to be subjigated to the state.
Yeah, well,...if he wants to be a member of the ruling class, he has to maintain the agenda of the ruling class,...just like the rest of them.
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Campfire Outfitter
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On the other hand, Obama is a self admitted progressive that attended Socialist Party meetings and sought out the Marxist professors in college as stated in his books. He sides with the mass murdering dictators and against the founding principles of USA. Obama seems to want all citizens to be subjigated to the state. That is slavery for all except the ruling class.
No, not much difference at all!
Yeah I've hear all that but when it comes down to issues, how did McCain differ from Obama on the AWB or gun show loophole? Or how about illegals? I always hear all this talk about the differences between the 2 parties but when it comes time for legislation, it looks like we have nothing but one great big giant liberal party irregardless of what letter they paste on their jackets.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I always hear all this talk about the differences between the 2 parties but when it comes time for legislation, it looks like we have nothing but one great big giant liberal party irregardless of what letter they paste on their jackets.
How can you say that when the congressional GOP just voted 100% against the porkulus? And only 3 out of 46 Senators voted for it. I see far more differences, than common positions.
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Campfire Outfitter
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How can you say that when the congressional GOP just voted 100% against the porkulus? And only 3 out of 46 Senators voted for it.
I see far more differences, than common positions.
Because the same GOP that voted against the stimulus were the very ones who voted for the $800 Billion bank bailout when Bush was still in office. They're also the same ones who voted for every single spending increase in the past 8 years that pushed our Debt from $5.7 Trillion to over $11 Trillion. Remember, earnmarks and pork were at record levels during Bush's presidency. Not until Dems took the House in '06 did Bush actually veto a bill with pork. How is anyone to believe there's actually a difference here?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Yeah I've hear all that but when it comes down to issues, how did McCain differ from Obama on the AWB or gun show loophole? Or how about illegals?
So McCain opposed a new AWB and voted against the last one. Meawhile Obama has repeatedly called for not only a new AWB but wants ALL semi autos' banned. What part of this are you confusing as the two being the same?
Opposes restrictions on assault weapons and ammunition types
* McCain opposes restrictions on so-called "assault rifles" and voted consistently against such bans.
* McCain opposes bans on the importation of certain types of ammunition magazines and has voted against such limitations.
* McCain believes that banning ammunition is just another way to undermine Second Amendment rights. He voted against an amendment that would have banned many of the most commonly used hunting cartridges on the spurious grounds that they were "armor-piercing."
Source: Campaign website, www.johnmccain.com, "Issues" Sep 1, 2007
Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban
McCain spoke generally of the need for some tighter gun controls on hardened criminals and children. In Congress, he pressured his colleagues to require background checks for buyers at guns shows, and he supported a requirement that trigger locks be sold with handguns. But the Senator opposed the two major gun-control measures of recent years, the 1994 ban on several types of assault weapons and the Brady Bill, which required a 5-day waiting period for handgun purchases.
Source: Todd S. Purdum, New York Times, p. A14 Aug 17, 1999
http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/John_McCain_Gun_Control.htm
OBAMA: Let's be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban.
Source: Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes Oct 21, 2004
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions
* Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
* Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
* Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.
Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998
http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm
![[Linked Image]](http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member651.png)
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Campfire Outfitter
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How can you say that when the congressional GOP just voted 100% against the porkulus? And only 3 out of 46 Senators voted for it.
I see far more differences, than common positions.
Because the same GOP that voted against the stimulus were the very ones who voted for the $800 Billion bank bailout when Bush was still in office. They're also the same ones who voted for every single spending increase in the past 8 years that pushed our Debt from $5.7 Trillion to over $11 Trillion. Remember, earnmarks and pork were at record levels during Bush's presidency. Not until Dems took the House in '06 did Bush actually veto a bill with pork. How is anyone to believe there's actually a difference here? BS. The GOP congress caused the first bailout to die. It was only when Pelosi got some blue dog Democrats to come back over that it passed Congress the second time. There had never been a bill remotely like this when the GOP was in charge of Congress. Not even remotely. The GOP passed a stimulus in 2001 that contained only tax cuts and tax credit, none of this political payoff and special interest pork. Not to mention it cost 1/10th as much.
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Campfire Outfitter
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What part of this are you confusing as the two being the same?
Maybe this part. John McCain's Gun Control Problem
by John Velleco
Director of Federal Affairs
In 2000, Andrew McKelvey, the billionaire founder of monster.com, threw a sizable chunk of his fortune into the gun control debate.
It was shortly after the Columbine school shooting. Bill Clinton was in the White House and gun control was daily front-page news. McKelvey wanted in.
He started out contributing to Handgun Control Inc., which had since been renamed the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. But while he agreed with their gun banning goals, McKelvey thought the way they packaged their message was too polarizing.
John McCain
John McCain
"I told them that Handgun Control was the wrong name. I thought what they were doing was great but I thought it could be done differently," McKelvey said.
So McKelvey struck out on his own and formed Americans for Gun Safety. Although AGS shared almost identical public policy goals as other anti-gun groups, McKelvey portrayed the group as in the 'middle' on the issue and attempted to lure pro-gun advocates into his fold.
To pull it off, he needed a bipartisan coalition with credibility on both sides of the gun debate. On the anti-gun side, the task was easy. Most of the Democrats and a small but vocal minority of Republicans supported President Clinton's gun control agenda.
Finding someone who could stake a claim as a pro-gunner and yet be willing to join McKelvey was not so easy. Enter Senator John McCain.
McCain's star was already falling with conservatives. He had carved out a niche as a 'maverick' as the author of so-called Campaign Finance Reform (more aptly named the incumbent protection act), which was anathema to conservatives but made him a darling of the mainstream media.
Gun owners were outraged over CFR, but McCain still maintained some credibility on the gun issue.
Earlier in his career, McCain had voted against the Clinton crime bill (which contained a ban on so-called assault weapons), and he did not join the 16 Senate Republicans who voted for the Brady bill, which required a five-day waiting period for the purchase of a handgun.
But as he ramped up for his presidential run in 2000, McCain, expanding on the 'maverick' theme, staked out a position on guns far to the left of his primary opponent, George W. Bush.
McCain began speaking out against small, inexpensive handguns and he entertained the idea of supporting the 'assault weapons' ban. His flirtation with anti-Second Amendment legislation quickly led to a political marriage of convenience with McKelvey.
Within months of the formation of AGS, McCain was featured in radio and television ads in Colorado and Oregon supporting initiatives to severely regulate gun shows and register gun buyers. Anti-gunners were ecstatic to get McCain on board.
Political consultant Scott Reed, who managed Bob Dole's presidential campaign in 1996, hoped McCain would "bring a conservative perspective to the gun debate."
The ads not only pushed the anti-gun show measure in those two states, they also served to undermine the efforts of gun rights activists who were furiously lobbying against the same type of bill in Congress.
"I think that if the Congress won't act, the least I can do is support the initiative in states where it's on the ballot," McCain said in an interview.
At the time still a newcomer to the gun control debate, McCain said, "I do believe my view has evolved."
McCain continued to pursue his anti-gun agenda even after his presidential run ended, and the next year he and McKelvey made it to the big screen.
As moviegoers flocked to see Pearl Harbor, they were treated to an anti-gun trailer ad featuring McCain. This time the Senator was pushing legislation to force people to keep firearms locked up in the home.
"We owe it to our children to be responsible by keeping our guns locked up," McCain told viewers.
Economist and author John Lott, Jr., noted, "No mention was ever made by McCain about using guns for self-defense or that gunlocks might make it difficult to stop intruders who break into your home. And research indicates that McCain's push for gunlocks is far more likely to lead to more deaths than it saves."
Also in 2001, McCain went from being a supporter of anti-gun bills to being a lead sponsor.
Pro-gun allies in Congress who were holding off gun show legislation -- which would at best register gun owners and at worst close down the shows entirely -- were angered when McCain teamed up with Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-CT) and introduced a "compromise" bill to give the issue momentum.
"There is a lot of frustration. He has got his own agenda," one Republican Senator told Roll Call.
After September 11, 2001, McKelvey and McCain, now joined by Lieberman, had a new angle to push gun control.
"Terrorists are exploiting the gun show loophole," AGS ads hyped. McCain and Lieberman hit the airwaves again in a series of radio and TV spots, thanks to McKelvey's multi-million dollar investment.
A Cox News Service article noted that, "The ads first focused on gun safety but switched to terrorism after Sept. 11. Americans for Gun Safety said the switch is legitimate."
However, Second Amendment expert Dave Kopel pointed out that, "the McCain-Lieberman bill is loaded with poison pills which would allow a single appointed official to prevent any gun show, anywhere in the United States from operating."
Ultimately, the anti-gun legislation was killed in the Congress and AGS fizzled out and disappeared altogether. The issues for which McKelvey spent over $10 million are still in play, however, and John McCain remains a supporter of those causes. In fact, as recently as 2004, McCain was able to force a vote on a gun show amendment.
In the post-Columbine and post-9/11 environments, the Second Amendment was under attack as never before. Pro-gun patriotic Americans who stood as a bulwark to keep the Congress from eviscerating the Constitution were dismayed to look across the battle lines only to see Senator McCain working with the enemy.
John McCain tried running for president in 2000 as an anti-gunner. This year it appears he is seeking to "come home" to the pro-gun community, but the wounds are deep and memories long. http://www.goapvf.org/mccain.htm
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Campfire Tracker
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Considering Pennsylvania's anti-gun Governor, I guess we can assume such things aren't as important to PA boys. Nah, you'd be pretty much wrong on that. You're using a pretty wide brush to paint there, my friend...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
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Obama voters are "CLUELESS IDIOTS" IMHO
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 12,071 |
Obama voters are "CLUELESS IDIOTS" IMHO
Yep. But what are Republican supporters who blindly vote for the GOP even as they get exponentially more liberal every year?
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Posts: 7,493
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I just added 2 more numbnuts to my ignore list......
To anger a conservative, lie to him. To annoy a liberal, tell him the truth.
Promoted to Turdlike status 03/17/12
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Campfire Outfitter
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I voted for Obama. No, I'm not "a liberal". He was the better of the two tickets and not by a little. A vote for McCain was a vote for the lesser of two evils. A vote for Obama was a vote against the 2nd amendment, personal success, national security, etc. You couldn't be more of a disappointment Jeff..... Yep.....you got yours so who cares about your kids, their kids or anyone else. 
Biden's most truthful quote ever came during his first press conference, 03/25/21.
Drum roll please...... "I don't know, to be clear." and THAT is one promise he's kept!!!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Tracker
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I voted for Obama. No, I'm not "a liberal". He was the better of the two tickets and not by a little.
If you are a social conservative or single issue voter (guns, abortion, etc), then you will disagree with me, perhaps violently <g>. I'm not a single-issue voter. I voted for who I thought was the better candidate for the times, overall. McCain is a good man but he's old, rigid if not calicified mentally, and didn't give the impression that he even wanted to win- especially at the end there. His decision making is suspect, as witnessed by choosing Palin for... for... uh... her gender and rabid social conservatism, maybe? Maybe? Not much else there.
Obama is doing fine so far, not that there's much "good" to be done. He's interfacing with Congress, listening, and trying to project calm (which McCain was TERRIBLE at). Let's face it- he's [bleep] just like McCain would have been. The economy is a MESS and it's not his doing, and there's no magic wand to wave to fix it. Let us not forget who our fearless leader was for the 8 years prior, and who gave away a trillion dollars to THE WRONG PEOPLE (if there even are "right people" for such stupidity) on his way out the door.
You want to tell me that Republicans are fiscal conservatives, warn me first so I don't blow beer out my nose, OK?
If McCain had won, we'd be going down the same path we are going down now- right? Can we all admit that? We'd all be complaining about the stupid McCain economic stimulus package. he'd be drawing down the war in Iraq over the next 4 years. The rhetoric might be different, but the results would be more or less the same.
As to Obama partying in college... give me a BREAK... who DIDN'T!? George W. Bush snorted coke, smoked pot, and drank like a fish... yet we all voted for HIM.
I know posting this won't endear me to some of you. Oh well. Hopefully you'll at least have some respect for the fact that I ain't gonna lie to you or pretend to be something I'm not. I'm a hippie redneck <g>, live out in the woods, got my guns and trucks and chain saws, but I also got my guitars, mountain bikes, and skiis...damned if I will close my mind and just swallow what the RNC or DNC is putting out. I'll use my own head and decide on the candidates on a case-by-case basis.
Respectfully,
-jeff
DITTO I need not say more
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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A vote for McCain was a vote for the lesser of two evils. A vote for Obama was a vote against the 2nd amendment, personal success, national security, etc. That is the way I see it. McCain was not my first choice but was the better of the two. We won't know the real results of the last election for at least four more years and maybe not then. I am not one to panic and will give this president a chance but so far he has not done anything to make me smile.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Chupacabras.
....launched.
.....you linberal queers have NO 9dea about what we're smokin'/ jokin' about.
real chupas,...
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Campfire Tracker
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To anger a conservative, lie to him. To annoy a liberal, tell him the truth.
Promoted to Turdlike status 03/17/12
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