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Originally Posted by bcp


From NASA:
http://planetquest.jpl.nasa.gov/glossary/l.cfm

"light-gathering (light collecting) power

The ability of a telescope to collect light. Proportional to the area of the telescope's objective lense or mirror.



Thank you BCP, I think that anyone who really thinks about it will take NASA over any riflescope manufacturer................................DJ


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Quote
All About Optics : Terms
Beginning Optics Advanced Optics Terms

Optical coatings

When you look at the lenses of a binocular or spotting scope, you'll notice tints in the glass that are usually purplish/greenish in color. What you are seeing are the anti-reflective coatings that have been put on the lenses. These coatings serve to reduce light reflection and scattering at the air-to-glass surface. When light strikes uncoated glass, a percentage of it (4-5%) is reflected back from the surface, and with 10-16 air-to-glass surfaces in a pair of standard binoculars or a spotting scope, almost 50% of the light passing through uncoated optics would be lost! By applying just one layer of anti-reflection coating, loss due to reflection can be reduced to 2-3%, and by applying multiple layers of coatings, light loss can be reduced to a mere .5% per surface!

Optical coatings are made from certain metallic compounds (most often involving the compound Magnesium Fluoride, but many manufacturers have proprietary coatings whose ingredients are trade secrets) that are vaporized and applied to the optical glass in very thin layers (measured in microns; millionths of a meter) inside a vacuum chamber. The quality and quantity of optical coatings matters a great deal in determining how bright and sharp a binocular or spotting scope will be.

There are some standardized terms concerning the level of coatings applied to binoculars and scopes. With optical coatings, more is better! With more coatings comes increased resolution, contrast, color fidelity, and increased light transmission.
fully coated optics: all air-to-glass surfaces are coated with an anti-reflective coating film. Many modestlypriced binoculars offer fully coated optics and have good but not great image quality.
multi-coated optics: one or more surfaces are coated with multiple anti-reflective coating films. Image quality with multi-coated optics can be quite good, except perhaps in lower light settings.
fully multi-coated optics: all air-to-glass surfaces are coated with multiple anti-reflective coating films. Fully multi-coated optics offer the highest image quality.
Important optical terms

Resolution: The ability of a binocular/spotting scope to separate and distinguish thin lines with clarity. Resolution is essentially the same as image sharpness.

Resolution test: A chart on paper containing a series of sets of lines at progressively smaller spacing and used to ascertain the limiting number of lines per millimeter that a binocular or spotting scope is capable of resolving clearly.

Contrast: The ability to distinguish differences in brightness between light and dark areas of an image. Because we see much of the color spectrum, contrast also refers to the ability to distinguish differences in dimensions of hue, saturation, and brightness or lightness. Optics with superior contrast transmit colors that appear very dense and saturated.

Transmission: The percentage of light that passes through the binocular or spotting scope and reaches the user's eyes. With modestly priced optics, transmission generally ranges from 85 - 90%. More expensive optics can achieve transmission of 95% or more

Chromatic aberrations: Because different colors move at slightly different wavelengths, they will come to focus at slightly different lengths when they pass through optical glass. The resulting false colorations (seen most often as purplish and greenish ghost images) diminishes resolution and color fidelity. Chromatic aberrations will be negligible with binoculars and scopes that use better optical coatings and/or higher quality glass.

Distortion: The disability of a binocular or spotting scope to deliver an image that is a true-to-scale reproduction of an object. There are principally two types of distortion to be concerned with; barrel distortion (where images bow outward and look bulged), and pincushion distortion (where images bend inward). In both cases, the distortion is due to a poor or compromised optical design and any binocular or scope that exhibits distortion should be passed up.

Astigmatism: The lenses used in a binocular or spotting scope usually have a curved shape, and thus all light rays passing through will not converge on the same focal plane. If this physical reality isn't remedied in the overall optical design, a binocular or spotting scope will provide images where either the center image or the edge image is in focus, but not both (without refocusing).

Astigmatism cannot be eliminated completely, but it can be kept to a minimum. Users will want to avoid binoculars or spotting scopes that exhibit too much astigmatism, as it cuts into the image quality.

Alignment and collimation: In a binocular or spotting scope, the optical components must, for the best performance, be situated as they were initially designed. Poor manufacturing and/or poor handling of the equipment can cause any or all of the components to become misaligned, resulting in diminished performance.

In a binocular, the optical components (primarily the prisms) in both barrels must be pointing in the exact same direction, known as collimation. Viewing through binoculars that aren't perfectly collimated (whether they became miscollimated through poor construction or mishandling) can cause great eye strain and fatigue. Porro prism binoculars are much more susceptible to collimation issues than roof prisms.

You can test a binocular for collimation by looking through them at a horizontal line (a door frame at about 15 - 20 feet works very well) and then slowly and carefully pulling the binoculars away from your face so that you can start to see where the two exit pupils intersect. The horizontal lines in each exit pupil should match up correctly. If they do not, they are out of collimation and need repair.



http://www.frontrangebirding.com/v/vspfiles/AAO_terms.asp


Do you see the word "Gather" in the above description of Optic terms?



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Advanced "Optics" terms here and still no "Gather is used. The word Transmission is used.

http://www.frontrangebirding.com/v/vspfiles/AAO_advancedoptics.asp



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"Gather" may not be used in optics design but it is certainly used in astronomy, to help see dim objects far away.
-----------------------------------
From: Caltech Astronomy
http://www.astro.caltech.edu/palomar/faq.html

So, why is a bigger telescope better? Because it gathers more light than a smaller telescope.
------------------------------------------
From Astronomy Magazine:
http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=a&id=787

light-gathering power

the ability of a telescope to collect light; the larger a telescope�s aperture, the greater its light-gathering power
-------------------------------------------
From Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1954JRASC..48...96H/0000097.000.html

The primary advantage of a large telescope over a smaller one is in its larger light gathering power.
---------------------------------------------
From European Space Agency:
http://www.esa.int/esaSC/120370_index_2_m.html

JWST will have a primary mirror with a diameter of 6.5 metres - more than twice that of Hubble�s - giving it much more light-gathering capability.
--------------------------------------------

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Ray Atkinson has repeatdly posted how the big scopes loose zero from impacts. Lately, so has John Barsness. Barsness and others have also reported a great deal on the tendency for the big scopes to break down down much more readily from heavy recoil vs. the smaller, lighter models on heavy kicking rifles.
While there are some very beefy, heavy military style scopes that are used on 50 BMG rifles, their recoil pulses are not nearly as fast or sharp as some of the light sporters, particularly the lighter magnums. This is the difference that counts when it comes down to break downs from recoil.
We've seen alot of talk about this "50 BMG tough" scopes, but none who speak of such things have provided any round counts to give us some idea of how long they hold up vs. the common sporter style scopes on such specialized rifles. Even if we did have some sort of round counts for these specialized military scopes, they aren't the same design scopes and they aren't used on the much lighter rifles we use. E

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The 50 BMG is plenty hard on scopes as this high speed video clearly demonstrates


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5pVya7eask&eurl=http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f73/video-riflescope-flexing-29147/



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The thing I most dislike about people using the bigger scopes is that it tends to kill the market for the smaller stuff - and I like smaller stuff. (I never did like anything I tried made by Burris - until I used one of their fine Fullfield 4X scopes. Of course they quite making that one.)


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I think one reason for the shift to larger scopes and rifles that we maybe haven't discussed enough is the shift in styles of Hunting.

Some of the places I hunt are pretty resticted in area. You lease a certain amount of land set up your stands and really don't have a lot of room to be walking around in. On a couple of the leases I've hunted on one of the quickest way to agrivate your hunting buddies is to walk around during hunting hours and spook our deer onto the neighboring land.

The point is that if I'm walking a relatively short distance to a fixed stand I don't mind carrying a heavier rifle with a larger scope, it's worth it to have better optical performance and a heavier steady rifle. But on leases where there's lots of room or we hunt in drives I want something like a Kimber or Finnlite that weighs a lot less and handles quicker.

I see the trend going more towards smaller leases in tighter areas either from urban encroachment or from Landowners charging more and more for hunting rights. I can certainly see why hunters that have lots of room to hunt and move a lot would have no use for larger rifles and scopes but unfortunately they may be moving towards the minority.

So again match the rifle and scope to the style of hunting, it may just give you another poor excuse to buy another one! smile .................................DJ


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Spot on DJ...



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Yep, dj is on the money. Let the game pursued and geographics dictate the equipment you will need. It's pretty arrogant to tell folks what will work best for them having no experience with the game pursed. Perhaps some of the folks who are fortunate enough to have easy access to thousands of acre's of uncluttered wilderness just don't realize how fortunate they are.

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RD, your PM box is full



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Thanks jwp.

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Originally Posted by cole_k
When I was in collage 35+ years ago, I was taught that the eye could not use the light from an objective lens larger than a 40mm.
As I have grown older I have found that I can not see any better with a 40mm than I can with a 33mm. So I have moved to the smaller scopes while everyone else seems to be moving to the larger objective lens.
So, why has everyone gone ape over large, i.e. 50mm, objective lens on scopes?


People have come down with "Tim the tool man Taylor" syndrome.

Hence the Remington ULTRA MAG series of cartridges. There are many examples but you see where I'm going with this.


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Originally Posted by lodgepole

People have come down with "Tim the tool man Taylor" syndrome.

Hence the Remington ULTRA MAG series of cartridges. There are many examples but you see where I'm going with this.



Then again you might be wrong were I think you are going with this.

I'll give you a good reason why I like to hunt Elk with my 300 Ultra Mag:

[Linked Image]


It shoots! ......................................DJ


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Experts say that our eye can use an exit pupil of 5mm for the most part so a 6x scope with a 36mm objective would give you a 6mm exit pupil. maybe a little excessive but you get the point.

so, if you use your scope at 8x, as some do, you would need at least a 40mm objective (40/8x = 5mm). now, if you shoot at 10x, you would need a 50mm objective.

I know lots of folks shoot at 4-6x and any good scope with a 36mm objective is going to do fine. Personally, I have moved to 50m scopes just 1) cause I hunt more from a fixed stand these days 2)deer seem to move more at first and last light, especially later in the season and "brighter" scopes do help 3) a little extra weight does not bother me. I have walk about rifles if I need them and I never could shoot "ultra light" rifles.

I do own two 56mm scopes 1)an 8x56 swarovski cause its the only size the fixed 8x came in and I saved $300 with the fixed x scope 2) a zeiss 4x12x56 cause doug at camerland was all sold out of the 50mm models.

that said, I like the 56mm scopes too and they optical quality is excellent.

personally, I dont want to go to the woods with anything under 40m but thats just me. my kids have a 2.5x8x32 leupold and as much as I used to like it, I now prefer the 3x9x40 they tote as well.

I had a guest come hunt my farm last year with a real POS scope. he shot a "big buck" at the end of shooting light. I found it the next morning, after 3 hours of tracking, it was a yearling! in his case, a $199 leupy 3x9x40 would have been a big upgrade!

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i don't think anyone is going ape over the 50mm objective. i've repeatedly read in numerous gun rags that the most popular scope in america is a 3x9x40, and has been for the last 20 years. if that is so, we can discount anything said about the mass popularity of a 50mm objective. i only know a couple folks with 50 mm objectives, and almost everyone else i run into has a 40mm.

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"and almost everyone else i run into has a 40mm" hotsoup, where do you hunt?

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Originally Posted by 257Bob


I had a guest come hunt my farm last year with a real POS scope. he shot a "big buck" at the end of shooting light. I found it the next morning, after 3 hours of tracking, it was a yearling! in his case, a $199 leupy 3x9x40 would have been a big upgrade!


Not only a POS, but too much magnification besides! wink Perhaps simply a 2.5X or 4X would have served as well.


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What I have gathered from all these transmissions is you guys need to take up varmit hunting and get out of the house. A big 50mm lens works great for this endeavor.


In the land of the blind, the one eye is king.
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I do have a 50mm on my varmint rifle. But to be honest I don't think it is necessary for 'yotes and hogs.

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