Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats AI 's which Ackleys work?

.280 AI and you can buy factory brass for it as well. It's common enough some of the semi custom makers offer it in their standard line.

If the AIs or other "improved" cartridges float your boat, go for it. The practical effect is minimal for the additional trouble. A case capacity increase of 10% - which is about what you get w/ these "improvements" - will yield about 2.5% increase in velocity. Period.

Some get more velocity increase than this in their AIs. They do this by increasing pressures.

A 30-06 AI will gain about 65 or 70 fps over the standard round, w/ 180 gr bullet.

The business of pressure disemination improvements is over blown as well - keep the chamber of a standard cartridge dry and it will do the same thing. The downside to reducing cartridge taper is the increased potential for a stuck cartridge in the AIs. There's a reason that the .375 H&H has significant taper - I've never hear of one being stuck - a nice characteristic of an African rifle on a hot day.

I will agree on the shoulder angle helping headspace. That is my rationale for liking belted cartridges - a 90-degree angle for more positive (and potentially tighter) headspace.

If the AIs fill you with love and euphoria, I'm with you. For me, if I want more velocity I get a magnum cartridge and see a real gain.

And the 30-06 AI is one that we mentioned as sometimes not being worth the trouble in regard to velocity gains (might luck up and get a fast barrel in the rebarreling ). Some others simply roar without exceeding safe pressures. If people want one for whatever reason, then why not. It's their dime. The 7 mm Sundra thingy hummed but was a genuine PIA to go through all the steps to get to the final case. It was unique and performed.

Again, this is the CUSTOM & WILDCAT WILDCAT WILDCAT WILDCAT forum. Throw back in the CUSTOM aspect and a better barrel with that AI does yield. The 280 AI's pressure tested by labs repeatedly make my 280's appear anemic, a spread so great it is like stepping up to a magnum.

Nobody is arguing to take one to Africa or possibly Alaska. I agree that would not be too wise on certain, but rare hunts. Some folks simply like to play with different rifles and cartridges and get off on every increase in performance or appreciate uniqueness in and of itself.

It is amazing how many ignorant people are on this subject. I saw significant gains in all the speeds, with extreme accuracy while fireforming. I have yet to use the full length sizer on my 243 AI, shooting the 70's at 3850 fps. I have worn out a dozen Hart barrels or more.

With the 244 AI, fireforming the 70's at 4050 fps will allow you to shoot the formed loads at 4150 fps with 1/4"-3/8" accuracy and only neck size.

I could go on and on with 223 AI, 22/250 AI.

You can lead some people to water, but you just can't make them drink.

The 6PPC, 22 PPC, 22 BR, 6 BR, and all Weatherby's are all a modified Ackley improved case...duhh huhh.....

No beef over the hair splitting accuracy of cartridges of the ilk you mention, nor that the AI may have some advantage in inherent accuracy.

My beef comes from a practical bent - velocity gain is marginal benefit compared to the impracticality of the conversion and subsequent use as hunting rifle. If that additional velocity is that big a deal, I'll get a much high capacity cartridge - standard cartridge - that I find in almost any gun shop or general store anywhere in hunting country.

If this isn't important to you, if the rifle is a back yard piece or target rifle, go for it. I'm all for you.

I own three AI calibers: 223 AI (there is no going back-3 of them now), 22/6mm AI (also known as the half mile 22 + AI), & 6.5x55 AI.

The 1:9 twist Savage runs 55 gr VMax at 3550 fps, 69 gr Sierra or Nosler HPBT's at 3300 fps, & 75 gr AMax's at 3150 fps. Accuracy is excellent.

The 22/6mm AI with 75 gr AMax's is nothing short of phenomenal on prairie dogs. I can safely run these bullets to 3850-3900 fps, but choose to run them at 3700 to prolong barrel life (don't know what the round count will be, but I don't want to find out either). Purchased this barrel late last fall to start going after long range prairie dogs. Only had time to work up some loads and do a couple of quick trips to prairie dog fields. At 400 yards, the AMax cuts the PD in half, sending the top 15-20 feet in the air, and tossing it backwards another 20 feet. Explosive is an understatement.

6.5x55 AI - my choice for long range work with no recoil and cheap brass. With the 40 degree shoulder, believe this is an excellent answer to the 6.5x284 in terms of prolonging throat life of the barrel. With 50 gr of H4831, it launches 142 gr SMK's at 2985 fps. One doe was harvest in the late season this year at 768 yards. There is only 3-500 yards left in this round with this bullet though.

All in all, VERY happy with all three. Have a spare barrel ready for the 22/6mm AI and another ordered for the 6.5x55 AI.

Cannot say enough about the 223 AI. For THE cheapest shooting, stock up on those 55 gr SP's from midsouth, add a charge of H4895 or Benchmark, and start taking PD's to 7-800 yards with no problem.

GF1

There is a gentleman here who lives knee deep in Brown bears. He guides and hunts with various wildcats for the bears. Remote, wet, frigid, and no stores for hundreds of miles. He posted here I believe just last week. They work reliably for him in different rifles, various action types, conditions, life threatening stuff, boring stuff.

The man's resume and experiences leave me, ah? awestruck. They are practical in giving him an edge he feels from vast experience is needed. He probably is scratching some itches, too.

I'm all for him, too, happy it works for him. Kicker is - would expect his success is not because he uses AIs, likely in spite of it. Must be sure we draw the right conclusions.

You are arguing with everyone who has, uses, and pursues Ackleys and wildcats, but also, every cartridge not on the following list whatever their motives, saying they should just get a 22 LR, 22-250, 257 Weatherby, 300 Weatherby, 375 H & H, and a 458 Win Mag and forget everything else, cause if one steps up to these cartridges I just named that cover all hunting, never any need for anything else. Or just say one can only hunt with a military cartridge as they will do it all, too-223, 30-06, and 45-70.

I prefer a Mercedes, blondes, Jack Daniels, P47's, Tempurpedic mattresses, Folgers Classic Roast, the color blue, capitalism, Elvis, the Apostle Paul, and the Abacos Island chain and the list could be endless for each of us to get there. I even know a fellow that doesn't like beaches and peace. Imagine.

Maybe a day when you have more time for them and you get the bug just to play with different cartridges. It can be as much fun as different rifles and hunting. It can be an excuse for more rifles and range time in adition to game hunting-varmint time, competition time, shooter interaction, etc.

Just go have fun whatever legal and wholesome, if there's time.

I just took a break from loading up a couple hundred 348AI rounds. I tested a few loads last Thursday and I am getting an honest 300fps gain vs. factory loads as the 348 had a boatload of case taper. 250gr Barnes Original style bullets at 2500fps and 200gr pills at 2700+. Improved version works terrific in my model 71 and to be sure I have cycled empty cases through this particular rifle. A great design well executed in the 30's as far as I can see. For me, the extra 300fps was worth it and then some. That my hard to find and expensive brass will last a lot longer is another plus as this rifle is a HOOT to shoot! I also shoot a 22-250AI and get similar excellent performance, have a 1950's wildcat in the safe called the 30 Belted Newton. An obsolete and difficult to load for rifle to be sure, but all of this adds up to a challenge for me and tons of fun. Might not be worth it to some, probably not to most, but that's OK for them. For a rubber room rifle nutball like me, it is all a labor of love. Good hunting, MARK

PS, I have and will again take wildcat cartridges to both Africa and Alaska. All part of the fun. Hope to soon take the 348AI and the 30 Belted Newton to both venues soon.

Zofko: Geez................I had to go back and see what I posted to merit such dinstinction

Oh yeah! Forgive me for my knuckledragging,Neanderthal approach to cartridge performance.....I bogged down quantitatively years ago,don't know how to use a slipstick,and always figured that if I wanted bullets to go faster I would buy a bigger case....I must have slipped a cog somewhere

I know that in the "whacky professor spectrum" of the rifle shooting universe,you cannot be considered a true rifle looney unless you perform many bizarre incantations over little brass bottles,spend a fortune on custom dies and barrels,and huddle over small fires in this parallel dimension with other like-minded souls,not arguing over the merits of a 150 gr 7mm bullet at 30350....but gleefully discussing how much ballistic necromancy it took to GET IT GOING at that speed...I must have lost my mind; I truly am not worthy

Since I've owned a number of 280's and managed to operate every one at about 3100 with a 140;and a greater number of 7 Rem Mags that (easily)pushed the same bullets at 3250-3300(burning 4-6 more grains of the same powder used in the 280),you'll forgive me if my dull wit and lack of imagination allows me to find room to squeeze the 280 AI in there???? .....Wait...I forgot.....I'm not doing it efficiently enough!!!...now I get it.

Seriously(if I can apply that description to the subject)I have messed with a couple of AI's which I suppose is what a 300 Weatherby really is,and have shot and helped do load development for the 375 AI;both cartridges are fabulous of course,as is the 280 AI. It is hard to argue that a 280 AI is not an excellent cartridge.....................but I can't help but wonder....if PO happened upon the "answer to all ballistic riddles".....how come it has taken 50-75 years for a factory to chamber ONE of them???? Or am I missing something?

I understand completely the joys associated with a new rifle,so if you get your jollies playing with case forming,anxiously awaiting new barrels, reamers,dies,exotic brass; drinking exotic Belgian Ales, and sneering contemptuously down your nose at "lesser" ballistic talents, all the while gaining not one whit of infield performance...BUT HAVING A GOOD TIME in the process,then I am ALL FOR YOU!

PLEASE, go and enjoy yourself...just don't look at me with a straight face and expect me to believe it Do we have a deal?

A couple of favorites of mine are the .260AI,6.5x55 BJAI and the 6.5/257 AI. Purty fair little cartridges!!

Ol' John

Whether it's worth it or not is a different question but my 223 AI gets ~250 fps more with 40-50 gr bullets than the standard 223 did in the same rifle. It's the combination of the rifle and the chambering that makes it worth it to me but may not be to the next guy I try to sell it to when and if I do.

I shoot 223 AI, 22-250 AI, 6mmAI, and soon 280 Improved. it is worth it to me for the reduced case stretch!

RobinNH GF1

If you don't like customs and wildcats, you could ask Mr. Bin to get rid of the particular Wildcat Custom forum because you have decided no else knows anything about these cartridges, you have deduced they are not worth anyone's time or trouble because you are an expert somehow.

That would be regardless of what engineers, gunsmiths, actual owners, competition shooters (they shoot evolving wildcats historically in the main) say. Some dangerous game, too.

Perhaps just stay away from this particular forum if they bother you so intensely. I don't tell people not to drive Fords, that I decided they were not worth the trouble, when they obviously did since they bought one.

I'm, also, for people making a living and one gunsmith just posted here he has more than he can do. That's great in this economy. I'm for all the folks moving product in the firearms industry and keeping people employed with standard factory, custom upscale, and gunsmithing trades of all types. These discussions actually sell rifles and satisfy customer wishes, sport, and needs. I'm not in the business but wish those that are well.

I think it's great you have found the cartridges you like.

Zofko, maybe you shoot quit drinking coffee and cut the sarcasm. I sure didn't say anybody who uses/likes the AIs if foolish, etc. I support, like you, anybody's interest in them and have yet to work a few similar wildcat projects myself in the next few years. I just have not seen them to be such a special lightning bolt that they make sense in a traveling serious hunting rifle; the practical downsides overpower the advantages, in my book.

But you can still fire factory ammo in them and that makes them nifty

Steelhead, that's a very good point. My 223 AI shoots standard 223 ammo MOA too though not quite as much so as the AI version. Although vel s a bit lower it seems like a win-win to me.

This was also true of the 375 Mashburn I had (case volume similar to the 375 Wby but with a sharp shoulder); it shot the H&Hs very well although in this rifle - a Ruger #1 Tropical - the POI at 100 yds changed dramatically.

Has anybody completed a 338 win-mag AI? Sure I could get a 340 roy but this 338WM-AI keeps me wondering.

Ted they do work some work better than others. I own 3 AI chamberings and with all of them the reason I decided to go with the AI version was because I was looking for a varmint gun with a Improved or slightly closer fitting chamber to neck dimension. It just so happends that the last 2 gunsmiths I dealt with had the reamers. for 25-06AI (I was wanting a barrel chambered for 25-06 at the time) 223AI same deal there. and lastly the one I am working on now 22-250AI. The reason for the 22-250AI is my hatered for crows, The 250 sends 50G bullets at 3950- 4000 fps and is very easy on the brass. In fact with a tight neck in this chambering you could get by with simply punching the primer out and reseating a new bullet. If I had to purchase the reamer with my own money I probably would not have gone the AI route but I am really glad I did. I currently have 2 targets with 10 shot groups out of my 223-AI that measure .113 and .119 They work. O