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Joined: Apr 2002
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Unless you are dealing with a known business over the internet or by mail order(like Sears, Amazon, etc.); don't give ANYONE any of your money unless they have the product in hand and the transaction is face to face. The world is growing an entire population of folks with no morals or ethics. Trust no one but God.

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FWIW, and this is just hearsay, the USPS won't get involved unless there's a pattern with vendor. I recently had a problem with a gun maker, and the only thing that saved my butt was that I had paid for most of it with a credit card, so I made a claim with the bank. I was SOL on my cash deposit. It can be tough when the other party has the merchandise and your money.

Paul


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KIDMOE Offline OP
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I thaught of that too, but he has had transactions completed on Ebay since I paid him and has had feedback posted for those sales. He also gave me an address that I sent the money order and FFL to, that I later researched and it is someone else's address. Probably a girlfriend or partner in crime. In the end I am hoping that the trace on the money order will give me a little more info to go after him with. Thanks again you guys for taking the time to respond, and again I hope it never happens to any of you. My lesson has been learned the hard and expencive way.

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I posted the original message back at the begining of January. If you guys have some time, I just wanted to update you all on what has happened since then. GOOD NEWS!! grin I actually got the gun on Friday!
It was a long and hard battle. First I tried in vain to email this guy, and finally gave up. I finally figured that if he wanted to be an honest man, he had his chance. It had been over a month since he recieved and cash my money order, and he made no attempt to contact me via email, or the return address on the envelope, or money order.
My first action was to contact the USPS mail fraud division via email and fill out their entire form with all the info that I had. The site stated that I would recieve return contact within one or two days. I never heard anything from them again. Suprise, suprise!
Next, I looked up the email address for the Tulare police department. About two weeks later I recieved a return email from the police cheif that I had originally emailed, stating that he had turned the case over to his detective unit. Within two days Detective Frost contacted me on the phone to confirm the information that I gave him before proceeding further. He stated that in California this would not fall under the catigory of a "crime" and I may have to take the guy to court to get anywhere, but he would pay a visit to the address the I shipped the money order to, and see if he couldn't get this issue resolved without involving the courts.
A few days later Officer Frost called me back and told me that he talked to the people that where at the address and they were the parents of the man that I mailed the money order to. Turns out the guy left the country for the Phillipines! The officer stated that he knew the parents and they where not criminals. I told the officer that I was glad to hear that, and was more than happy to just let it all be dismissed as a mistake if they would send me the gun or refund my money. They had never seen the money order, but said that the gun was still at thier son's residence.
The officer emailed the guy in the Phillipines. The presence of a police officer at his parents house must have somehowe made his email start working, because suddenly I started getting emails from the him again. He stated that he repeatedly tried to email me before but never got any responce, and he didn't recieve the FFL licence to mail the gun.
Instead of making an issue of the fact that he could have mailed me a letter, or called me on the phone, or made some effort to contact me in any way before leaving the country with my money, I instead just told him that I would have my FFL mail him another copy of his licence, and he could have his parents mail me the gun. He agreed and I mailed him the FFL. The whole time I forwarded all contact with him to Officer Frost to keep him informed.
A week passed with no contact. I emailed the guy again and asked if he had recieved the FFL, and if his parents had mailed the gun. I got an email the next day from the guy stating that he got a much higher offer for the gun, and he would let me know if the deal fell through he would mail me the gun, if it did sell though he would send me a refund, and that I should just wait until he told me what was going on.
I forwarded this email to Officer Frost and sent the guy an email stating that his business practices where terrible, and he needs to send me the money or the gun today! His responce was "Shut up idiot!" and proceded to tell me that he would do what ever he wanted and I had no control of the situation. I forwarded this email to Officer Frost as well, and told Officer Frost that I would no longer be in contact with this guy, and if I did not recieve the money or the gun within one week I would have take it to the courts. Officer Frost emailed him and stated that he needed to resolve this issue, or face immediate legal action.
One week passed. I have never gone to court for anything and wasn't looking forward to it. I emailed officer Frost and asked if he had recieved any other info. He had not and again repeated his warning to the guy via email. I let another week pass and was planning to contact a lawyer to get the ball rolling on Monday.
Friday came and I got a call from my FFL stating that my gun was in. It was finally over! Why the guy never just told me he was sending it and insted chose to run the risk of getting taken to court, I will never know.
This whole thing started in November when I mail the money order. What a pain. I never would have had any justice if it were not for the efforts of Officer Frost and the Tulare police department, and probably some credit is due to the guy's parents, who are most likely more honest than the son that they raised.
I know, a long story, but I just thought that you guys would like to know, since everyone was so concerned and supportive of my problem. A lesson learned if nothing else, and I consider myself extremely lucky after making a stupid mistake. Thanks for reading!

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I'm impressed. But what a pain. You should send a nice letter to the chief of the Tulare PD.


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wow!, glad I've never had anything that bad happen!
glad it worked out for you, I bet it feels good to have it all settled, way to stick with it!


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Good for you. It is nice to read of helpful officers instead of what we read here most of the time. Hope it is all you wanted the rifle to be.


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I definatly will send a letter to the Tulare police cheif, and tell him how professional Officer Frost was, and thanks again for all his help. Ya know, the whole time Officer Forst never took sides. He just did his best to resolve the issue even though he really didn't have to do anything. An honest man!

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holy smokes glad it worked out for you what a POS!


I sent $2500 thru the mail awhile back to rockchucker awhile back to purchase a rifle and scope. He doesn't have a real high post count so I did do a little investigative work via PM here, he checked out and the rifle and scope exactly as described, prompt mailing etc.

the guy you dealt with should still have a good horse whuppin though, what a tude on the email stuff. I'd a been pizzed.


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Originally Posted by KIDMOE
I definatly will send a letter to the Tulare police cheif, and tell him how professional Officer Frost was, and thanks again for all his help. Ya know, the whole time Officer Forst never took sides. He just did his best to resolve the issue even though he really didn't have to do anything. An honest man!


That's a fact.

It sounds like that police chief went way out of his way to see that justice was done.


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KIDMOE Offline OP
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I was pretty P.O.ed about all this for a long time. I could never understand being so dishonest. It seems like this is becomeing the norm rather than the exception. The only thing that seems to be any consolation is that there are still honest people out there like the Officer that I had the good fortune of dealing with.

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Originally Posted by Dave_Skinner
You should send a nice letter to the chief of the Tulare PD.
Letter, plus a gift certificate to a local fine steak house, would be what I would be doing.. And with alacrity!!.. The guy apparently went a fair distance out of his way to help you out..

I'm sure happy to hear you got your firearm.. I sure hope I never have a similar experience..


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Yeah, if you get a chance, send something on paper to the PD. Sounds like they really worked for you on this one.

BY THE WAY.

If any of you should end up in this place again, let me recommend one other avenue of relief.

If they own their home, you can go to the courthouse in that county and file a lein on it for the amount that you are owed. Then, should they ever try to get a loan against it, or sell, it, you have to be re-imbursed first.



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Originally Posted by Redneck
Letter, plus a gift certificate to a local fine steak house, would be what I would be doing.. And with alacrity!!.. The guy apparently went a fair distance out of his way to help you out..


+1...

this actually oughtta be a public news item... good cops deserve good press.....
maybe a note to their local paper???

Last edited by johnw; 02/23/09.

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Detective Frost is a good police.

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Originally Posted by KIDMOE
...GOOD NEWS!! grin I actually got the gun on Friday!


Great! Now tell us about the gun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FC


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If this guy is on this forum you should throw him under the bus and name him so that others can avoid him. Proud of the police dept that has a Officer Frost


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What a headache. Glad it worked out for you in the end. You got the happy ending that most in a similar situation never get.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonTide
Yeah, if you get a chance, send something on paper to the PD. Sounds like they really worked for you on this one.

BY THE WAY.

If any of you should end up in this place again, let me recommend one other avenue of relief.

If they own their home, you can go to the courthouse in that county and file a lein on it for the amount that you are owed. Then, should they ever try to get a loan against it, or sell, it, you have to be re-imbursed first.



The lien procedure might work for Kentucky, I couldn't say, but I'd be careful about using it as a universal avenue of procedure. YMMV


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I don't think the lien would be a good solution in the case of his parents owning the house.

Definitely a good thing you got a great LEO to help out. Don't know about the rules of sending him a gift certificate, but a major thank you and job well done note sent to him and the chief of police would definitely be in order.

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