Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Backup rifle for Bison

My father-in-law posed me with a question and I'd like some advice. He is applying for a bison hunt in Utah, and he wants to use his bow. He asked me, if I'd bring a rifle and back him up if he drew a tag. Of course the answer was 'Yes'.

So far so good, but I don't own a proper stopping rifle. I am inclined, but not financially positioned, to buy one on the off chance I'll need it for this. So the task would fall to one of two rifles I already own: a 375 H&H M70 or a Marlin 45/70. So, the question is, given the project and the options, which would you choose and why?

Thanks,

tq

I would choose the .375 because thats what I choose for nearly everything.

The .375 H&H by all means is the best back up rifle...

I would go with the 45-70. You're bowhunting so I imagine you'll be fairly close? Say 50 yards and in? Is the Marlin scoped? I'd want something open sighted, and easy to handle and operate at that distance. Not to mention you can use a 350 or 400 grain bullet, and would think recoil would be easier to manage with the 45-70 therefore making for a quick 2nd or 3rd shot if need be. Or even the Hornady 325gr LeverEvolution bullet with the expanding tip. Just my .02

375H&H because it will shoot a 300gn TSX at 2600fps. Has better velocity, ballistic coefficient and sectional density than the 45-70. Will work closeup and has the range to keep pounding the buff if it's heading away an you need to stop it (all the way out to 300 plus yards). Do you want to start shooting as soon as the arrow is in or wait to see if the buff needs a finisher? Your shots could start at some distance. And most importantly, the 375H&H because you're shooting flesh and bone not a stack of newspaper.

I respect Mr. Atkinson's opinion, so the .375 works for me.

The idea is to not shoot at all unless things go sideways, in which case we'll be close (less than 50 yards I would think), as I wouldn't expect things to go sideways unless and until an arrow was stuck into the bison.

OK, given that I'll be using the .375 from fairly close, will a 300 gr partition at 2500 fps be adequate, or should I consider TSX or solids?

I've never shot anything of that size from any range with any caliber so I'm not certain what to expect.

Thanks all for the input!

tq

The American Bison is one of the toughest animals to kill that I have ever seen, more so than the Cape Buffalo, fortunatly he is not as aggressive as the Cape Buffalo..But, never think for a moment that the Bison won't on ocassion try your hat on...I have seen a Bison take 4 50 caliber 500 gr. bullets at 1700 FPS handloads and go 4 miles with me tracking him in a blizzard for my grandson, dead when we found him..I saw another take 5 300 Wby rounds and go several miles and then killed with a finisher..I witnessed one take two shots with a 45-70 and stand for 9 minutes before he went down to his knees while I kept telling the shooter to shot him again, I finally told him to finish the job or I was going to. Tough animals for sure...

The 375 with 300 or 350 gr. Woodleighs works real well and puts them down fairly fast, as does the 450-400...

The 45-70 ws one of the original buffalo stompers. It'll work. Use a 405 gr slug and aim for the base of the neck just as the buff runners used to do for quick drops. Even those old boys agreed that body shots on a woolie wuzn't likely to put them down anytime soon.

I've assisted a dozen or more hunter friends take bison here from this large, wild, free-roaming herd. Our goal is to get the animal down before it can get into the heavy bush. Frequently, a second shot is in order if not a third. Butchering and packing a large bison out of heavy spruce is not a job to take lightly.

I've used the 375 H&H loaded with Federal 300gr TBBC with great results. I loan the 375 to friends that don't have a rifle that large.....in that case, I use a 35 Whelen with 225 TBBCs.

IMO it's important to understnd the anatomy of the bison....try to find a diagram of their skeletal structure. I discourage those that want to try a neck shot as the spine is way low and nothing like moose etc. The front knee rubs the hair off a apot on their side....the heart is behind that spot on a broadside.

Also, if trying to take an animal from a herd, the wounded animal will often become surrounded by other herd mates as they try to protect that animal.....I can see a real problem here. What ever shooting needs to be done, I would certainly do before that herd intervenes

Vern, the old buff runners would shoot the lead cow through the lungs exactly for that purpose. Of course they were going to shoot out the entire pod while one of us is only going to take 1. I've read the narratives from 4 literate hunters and they all used the neck shot as their first choice killer at some pretty extended ranges. This is not my experience, it is the experience of 4 men who collectively probably killed nearly 100,000 bison between them and I defer to their experience.

Every bison that I have shot had the herd gather around him and try and get him up on his feet, then they run off, but you can bet your bippie they will return within 15 or 20 minutes or just about the time you pull out your skinning knife and then have to make a quick retreat..At this point if anything is going South this is when it will happen.

Best to have a bite to eat, something to drink, let them do their "thang", then when they been gone awhile, say 30 minutes go get your buffalo. I have not been charged by a Bison and I have shot only a few of them, maybe 5 or 6, but I know folks that have.

I like the meat and the rugs are beautiful and the head mounts are impressive but they are not a intelligent creature at best and they are easy to hunt except in very rough country, then they can be hell to get a shot at and very challanging, but their are not a lot of bison in rough mountainous country in the USA. The last bison I shot took me 6 days of hard hunting and climbing, I would have rather been after Mt. goats..those buff were wild..but they are no longer around as the ranch sold.

Evil Twin,
I agree with you on the neck shots but those old bison hunters shot thousands and understood the anatomy of that critter. The spine strucrue in the neck is different from what most of we moose/elk/caribou hunters are accustomed to and our hunter is going after his first bison.

Atkinson is correct.....they can be difficult to hunt in rough terrain. Here in interior AK, our herd becomes very wary after the first few weeks of the six month season. They frequently become nocturnal and feed in the open fields only at night and hide in the black spruce during the day. Many hunters are ecstatic at drawing this coveted tag only to spend a lot of time and money to go home empty handed. Success rate this year probably won't be much over 50%.

Reminded of the one I meant face to face at Ft. Greeley one evening in thick brush. Me with and M-16 full of blanks. I'm sure glad he left the field before I could clean my shorts. They sure do like the thick stuff. Them rose vines can sure hold a fellow from moving out of the way, huh?

in november i was going for bison in colorado, which we did do.
Two guy were using 250grain partitions with 338win mags, one had a 300 holland and holland with a 150grain failsafe, and I had the choice of a marlin 45/70, 338winmag I loaded with barnes x bullets, or a .357H&H loaded with a speer gram slam. I took the .375.
One bull fell at about 50yards from the 300 Holland&Holland, side shot in the heart, never moved. Lots of destruction when skinning it from the bullet. One buff was shot with the .338win mag and ran off a distance and did kill it, but not right away.
The third buff was a heifer, it fell over and the herd immediately surrounded it, interesting situation with about 100buff agitated to say the least.
My buff was estimated to be about 3 years old. I hit him in the side at 138yards, measured with a lazer range finder. Upon skinning the bullet blew out the top of his heart. He moved about 15yards after being hit and laid down, but still took several minutes it seemed to die.
I think if the distances were reasonable i would not have any issue using the guide gun, which is mounted with a red dot sight and williams express sights, and a good 405grain bullet loaded to about 1800fps. The guide said he had seen them shot with all kinds of things, but bullet placement was very important.
My own feeling is seeing how big these animals are and how big they can get, 2500pounds I understand, and with that herd mentality, it isn't so much what will kill them, a lot of things will, but i just felt more comfortable with the cz 375. I would not want to have members of the family aggravated with me at close distances and like the idea of a bang flop as much as possible. Just had some burgers tonight from Mr. Buff and they were excellent. Fully intend to do this again when I run out of the current guy in the freezer. I did take the cz also because I wasn't sure of what ranges I was going to shoot at, and wanted the scoped cz if it would have been longer. The marlin would have probably worked just as well

I could add one more thing. Since member of his family were circulating around in the brush I know not far away, the first thing I did having knocking mr buff down was full reload the rifle, and my partners stayed in that condition too as we went up to the downed animal. We all had on our minds some angry member of the family coming out of the treeline not far behind my animal. I would not underestimate that herd mentality.

Took a 10 year old dry cow bison last fall with a guide gun.Shooting 405 grain hard cast at 1650 fps , hit her on the run at about 100 yards.She nosed dived into the ground on the shot.Upon examination after skinning the bullet had taken about 80 percent of her backbone off where it had impacted which would explain the way she dropped.Re-weighed the bullet after wards and it was down to 270 grains.Personally i would take my guide gun as i feel fairly confident with it but no doubt its going to come down to bullet placement when comparing the 2 calibers.