Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles .223 Remington Max Loads

Hello, I am pretty new to the reloading world and am a bit confused yet on maximum loads, I am seeing a lot of information that varies between manufacturers. I have a Remington 700 VLS chambered in .223 Remington. The load I am working up right now is with these components: CCI 7-1/2 small rifle primers, Winchester brass, AA2460 powder, and Hornady 50 grain moly coated v-max bullets. In my reloading manual Hornady is using a Remington 700 with a 26" barrel (same as mine) and Winchester brass. Their max load with my powder (AA2460) is 27.1 grains with a C.O.L. of 2.200". I currently made a load with the following: 26.7 grains and a C.O.L. of 2.245". I shot them and seen no signs of pressure, although I doubt I would see any pressure signs because they are pretty light considering I seated the bullet higher and am using moly coated bullets. I am hoping to get well into the 3400 ft/s range. What do you guys think? How much more can I push it without getting dangerous? How much more velocity can I achieve using the moly coated bullets? I am willing to try new powders to the achieve highest velocity and whatever you guys recommend. Please reply only if you are very experienced in this area and have experience with the .223 Remington cartridge, but I assume most of you guys are on here.

Help me out guys!

Thanks!,

Braxton

If your primers are indeed 7 1/2, they are from Remington, not CCI. I think your choice of AA2460 is fine as it is proper for lighter bullets, on the other hand your barrel is a little longer than usual and I'm not sure that your mowder choice is in tune with that barrel length. You might want to consider a somewhat slower powder, at least to try. If you like AA powders you might want to investigate the suitability of AA2520.

If you want to try another powder, I would recommend Varget for the longer barrel, but that usually goes better with a longer/heavier bullet. I use home-moly-coated bullets exclusively in my match ARs, so I am very familiar with that but not in such light bullets.

You likely shouldn't be messing with moly at this stage of your reloading. It really does drop velocity/pressure and the only concrete way I have seen to negate that is to develop loads over a chronograph.
I'm not experienced with AA powders but have noticed for some reason they often give some of the highest velocities for a cartridge.
Regardless, with an appropriate powder your goal of 3400 is not out of line but using data for bare bullets and using moly you will never know where you are without shooting over a chronograph.

I tried some AA2460 some years back because AA showed some very high velocity with 50gr bullets. I blew a primer at a full 1gr below their listed max charge. Up to that point accuracy wasn't what I was looking for and velocity was lagging some from a Ruger varmint with a 26 inch barrel. But here is their recipe. I would approach their top load carefully because your components are different.
Rifle-- Rem 788 24 in. barrel.
primer CCI400
case IMI
Bullet 50gr. no brand mentioned.
Overall length 2.260
Start load 25.2 for 3149 fps.
Max load 28.0 for 3527
Haven't fooled with molly in many years but it does require a little more powder to achieve the same velocity as un-coated bullets and whether you can increase the charge further is up to you and your equipment. Without a chronograph your pretty much flying blind as a hat full of powder may not be giving the velocity you want or think your getting. My personal method for varmint rifle's is to load for accuracy with velocity a secondary consideration.

I actually do have a chronograph, I just purchased it a few months ago. It is the Shooting Chrony Master Chronograph. So since I have the chronograph, how should I develop the load. So since my max load is 27.1 grains of AA2460, should I load cartridges increasing to that point? For example fire a cartridge at 26.7 grains, 26.8, 26.9, 27.1, etc. Also once I check each cartridge for pressures signs and there is no signs, is there a possibility the next cartridge could have a catastrophic failure, for example the case rupturing from to high of pressures and having the bolt come back in my face, or would I get obvious sign before such a drastic event, such as a stiff bolt or cratered primer. Explain to me how I would use the chronograph numbers toward developing my cartridge. Excuse my ignorance, I may be new to reloading, but I am an expert shooter and ballistics expert. For my experience, I was on a shooting competition shooting team for quite some bit and excellent, I was offered several shooting scholarships. It was a shame that I made the decision to turn them down and go to a college somewhere local. Sorry if I got a bit off topic =P

Reply when you find the time,

Thanks!

Braxton

What I look for with my chrony are big jumps in velocity with small increases in powder. This tells me things are getting "touchy". If you wait for pressure signs like flat primers, extractor marks, and sticky bolt lift things can get unsafe fast. YMMV

if you want max velocity, I think you are using a good combo.. like said above, I wouldn't mess with moly....

if you want more velocity, drop you bullet weight down to 40 grains and you can easily hit 3750 to 3800 fps with a batch of different powders...

you want more velocity still, Berger's nice 30 grain HP is a long bullet for its weight.. that one can be brought up to 4000 to 4100 fps.. and it is a tack driving accurate bullet and very explosive...

I have the same 223 VLS that you have.. and it has never been overly finicky....

I went thru one pound of AA 2460 in it... I preferred the results in accuracy with Benchmark, H 322, and both the 4198s and RL 7 over AA 2460 in my rifle at least...

My rifle has about 5,000 rounds down the barrel...

I am soon going to drop down to the 40 grain v-max for some extra velocity for close range (less than 200 yards). But I enjoy long range target shooting where the higher velocity with the higher ballistic coefficient bullet would be nicer, and I am going with the 50 grain v-max for my long range applications. I would go up to the 69 grain range but I know my twist definitely won't stabilize it, so their out of the question. But I am going to try some of your powder choices next time I go to cabela's when I pick up some more 40 and 50 grain v-max's. I must say why is everyone telling my don't mess with the moly? Is there something I don't know? From what I know using moly coated bullets have many benefits and very few drawbacks.

Braxton

How much faster you are able to push loads because of moly and how much more powder to add is seldom addressed in reloading manuals and leaves much to user discretion who needs to do much of the work/load development himself.
Your first sentence of,"Hello, I am pretty new to the reloading world and am a bit confused yet on maximum loads" doesn't give me confidence to tell you how I would go about it.
You have a chronograph. Velocity readings of current load workup would make it much easier to give specific advice.
Regarding 40 grainers. If the Nosler NBT shoots in your rifle,very likely, it halves the BC difference between the 40 and 50 gr. V-max/NBT and it's additional launch speed makes it trajectory very favorable to a 50 gr. V-max or NBT out quite a few hundred yards. No problems out to 500 yards for sure. Benchmark,Ram Shot X-Terminator & Tac, and H335 are my favorite powders for bullet weights 50 grs. and under.

I don't work up a load .1 at a time but if it makes you comfortable do it. I know that when you first start reloading it can be a bit scary until you get more familiar with looking for the "signs" of excess pressure etc. Better to be safe than sorry. I quit using moly as I didn't see all the benefits that were being bally hooed when it first arrived on the scene. Appeared to me to be an additional cost or step and gave me little in return. Other folks feel much different about it and more power to them. I have never been one to criticize someone because they do things different and enjoy the results. I recommended a chrono because with out it you would never know if you actually achieved one of the benefits attributed to moly. Sounds like you have the shooting part down. Good luck on achieving your goals.

I shoot .223 with a 50gr. vmax and AA2460, it's a great combination. What I have found though is when I was trying to max out my velocity my groups started getting bigger and bigger even though my brass didn't show any signs of pressure. I finally dropped my powder to 26 grains using a CCI 400 small rifle primer, my chrono says this load is around 3400 fps out of a 24 in. barrel, and at 100yds. I can shoot dime size groups. Remember, faster isn't always better.

I found 40 grain bullets out of a 12 twist Remington grouped tighter a full grain under max. So that's what I shoot. The prairie dog can't tell the difference.

HM

I have one of the 700VS in 223 with the HS stock, with the Jewel trigger at 8 oz and 6X24 Elite 4200. It likes the 40 Vmax over 24.2 gr of AA2015. It's not a barn burner at around 3650 fps but it shoots bug holes. Many, many groups under a 1/4" and under 1/2" at 200. I don't have much luck with anything over a 55 in mine but have found that I can push a 65 SGK at over 3000fps with a max load of H335 and shoot about 1/2MOA most of the time and mine is a 1/12 twist, also.

I've trotted this out before but here's a six shot group with 40 Vmax's and 10X plus one fouling shot. Seven rounds total on the paper. I loaded seven rounds since I wanted to test 5 shot groups out a clean barrel and figured it would take two shots to foul my Cooper. It didn't. Each group shot the fouler out of a clean barrel just slightly high and to the right. This load was using Federal brass (yeah, I know) and 24.5 grains of 10X. I used Federal small rifle Gold Medal's. The same charge (24.5) of 10X gives me 3540 fps over the screens with 50 Vmax's and nearly as good of accuracy. I think I may slow that down a notch, but no pressure signs using Norma brass in the Cooper. I think the 40's ran over 3800.

Nice groups! I think I may being trying out some 10X powder, everyone has been recommending it to me lately. Quick question, what did you mean when you said, "This load was using Federal brass (yeah, I know)". I am not an experienced handloader yet and excuse by ignorance, but were you insinuating federal brass is poor quality, tell me what you meant when you find the time.

Braxton

I know you didn't ask me, but Federal 223 brass is notoriously soft. I've had a bunch of it get loose primer pockets from firing the factory loading, and the chrono told me they weren't loaded hot.

Yeah, I know.


I've not had the problems with Federal that some guys have. I did get mine about 8-10 years ago, so that might make a difference.

I read somewhere they put in a production change that allows for fewer draws, but you wind up with a softer case.

You like pictures Here's 24.2 grains of AA 2015 in Lake City 06 with Remingtons 7 1/2...Targets are a 1/2" diamond...


Here's 23.8 with a 52 grain Amax flier is first shot of the day out of the 700VS...



Same load same bullet all 5 shot groups....



This is the rifle....

Nice shooting. It's so true that the only interesting rifle, is an accurate rifle.