|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 17
New Member
|
OP
New Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 17 |
Dose the shape of the case have any impact on the felt type or amount of recoil?
"The test of a man's true character is not measured by how he displays his physical courage, but how he preforms in a moral dilemma."
Our country is in a moral dilemma... How will you preform?
D Bell
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101 |
No.
BUT - a case operating at higher pressure - and using less powder to do so - can give velocities equal to a larger case, using more powder - to get the same velocities.
The amount of powder used - is not insignificant - when it comes to calculating recoil.
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,846 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,846 Likes: 2 |
I have found that the larger cases hurt more.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 17
New Member
|
OP
New Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 17 |
So what causes a case to have higher pressure?
"The test of a man's true character is not measured by how he displays his physical courage, but how he preforms in a moral dilemma."
Our country is in a moral dilemma... How will you preform?
D Bell
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101 |
What I meant is that when two cases - one larger, and one smaller, both send a projectile out at the same speed, the smaller case will have less recoil - because it must be operating at a higher pressure.
This is the ONLY reason that some of the shorter more modern magnums have less felt recoil compared to some of the older larger cased magnums - they operate at higher pressure.
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,607
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,607 |
all depends on the powder burned and how fast it burns.
a larger case can hold more powder (obviously) so typically it kicks more, and for that reason. and they tend to carry a bigger bullet, also a factor in recoil.
now when you get into reloading you take on a whole new genre of what to expect in a cartridge. you can take a 30-06 and make it kick like a .223 although the bullet won't perform for chit. so there is something to it. but on the same note, you can tweak cartridges unlike the factory can, thus improving performance. so does case size have a bearing on recoil? yes. does it mean a large case will have large recoil? not always. does this help? or create a whole nother world of questions?
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
Calm seas don't make sailors.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,371
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,371 |
Weight of the rifle has a lot to do with it. Also, the weight of the charge fits into the equation. That said though, I have never found a 308 I enjoyed shooting.
Steve
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,607
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,607 |
also a common misconception is a larger bullet must take more powder to make it move right? wrong!
it becomes a pressure game, that any number of factors can come into play, which is why its not a good idea to play around with powders and cartridges without the know how to fiddle in the margins (I don't and wouldn't try).
a larger bullet in a certain caliber requires less powder to get going than a smaller bullet of the same caliber. here is why.
lets say bullet A (55 grain) out of a gun requires 25 grains of X powder
and bullet B (75 grain) out of the same gun requires 24.5 grains of X powder
why is that? the heavier bullet takes more force to move, and when it starts moving its slower and pressure has a chance to build up.
in a smaller bullet you need more pressure up front, because once it starts moving its light and needs more push to get up to max speed.
now all this is dumbed way down. but does it help? I hope so. good luck!
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
Calm seas don't make sailors.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 17
New Member
|
OP
New Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 17 |
Ok I understand what your saying, the reason for the question was that I was told resently that the reason that your strait walled cases have more of a push rather than a punch is because of the strait wall as opposed to something like a .338 that has a sholder and more of a punch.
"The test of a man's true character is not measured by how he displays his physical courage, but how he preforms in a moral dilemma."
Our country is in a moral dilemma... How will you preform?
D Bell
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,607
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 13,607 |
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
Calm seas don't make sailors.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,206 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,206 Likes: 5 |
There are numerous factors to "felt recoil"- including psychological (if you think it's gong to knock the snot out of you- it probably will!)
Here are some:
Weight of projectile Powder load Efficiency of recoil pad Weight of rifle Muzzle rise Muzzle blast Shooting position Reason for shooting (target vs game) Design of stock Shooters physique Shooter's hold on rifle Fit of rifle to shooter
Other things being equal, I doubt the shape of the case has much to do with felt recoil. I'm only guessing, but if I had to put money on it, I'd guess equivalent loads, etc. etc in a .300SM will have no perceptible difference in felt recoil with that of a .300 H&H, or .300 WM. Or very little.
By "equivalent loads", I mean everything is the same- rifle weight, recoil pads, projectiles, powder measures, etc (your projectile velocities may vary!)
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Ok I understand what your saying, the reason for the question was that I was told resently that the reason that your strait walled cases have more of a push rather than a punch is because of the strait wall as opposed to something like a .338 that has a sholder and more of a punch. Borrow some Buddy's guns and Choot,..... You'll get a handle on your recoil tolerance. PROTECT your ears,.....there's a big flinch-factor lurking in poor hearing protection. I think Big guys get kicked harder,...... Just my $.02 GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,206 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,206 Likes: 5 |
Big boys don't get kicked any harder- they just don't have the give us wimps have so they feel it more. After all, the more mass there is to get moving with the force applied, the slower it is to get moving. You are absolutely right on hearing- foam plugs under earmuffs makes my .338 Mag-Na-Ported Ruger much less recoil perceived on the bench. Don't even notice it when whacking a moose in the field, without any hearing protection at all. I think there may be something to do with muzzle blast frequency as well- the .243 has made my ears ring a couple times when game-shooting in the field, and I can't recall any other rifle doing so.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 17
New Member
|
OP
New Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 17 |
Thanks guys I think I have the answers I'm looking for
"The test of a man's true character is not measured by how he displays his physical courage, but how he preforms in a moral dilemma."
Our country is in a moral dilemma... How will you preform?
D Bell
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
Recoil is recoil. (Blank) pounds is (blank)pounds. The speed and area that it is administered determines how it is "felt".
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,510
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,510 |
From my own experience...
Dropping down from 165s or 180s to the Barnes 130 TTSX in my 300 WM had a remarkable effect on felt recoil. So bullet weight definitely is a key factor. However, one additional thing that Barnes does to their monolithic bullets is cut a number of grooves in them, which reduces friction and thus pressure, which I assume also should make a difference.
Having shot 300 WSMs, which basically match the 300 WM in performance, bullet size being equal, they do kick noticeably less. This is explained in one of the preceding posts.
As LAS notes, all kinds of other things factor into recoil, not the least of which is weight of the rifle and shape of the stock.
There is a super good article in the January 2008 edition of "Rifle" magazine by John Barness (Mule Deer) all about gun stocks and how critical design and proper fit for the user is, particularly with regard to felt recoil. Well worth a read if you can track it down.
Last edited by sir_springer; 03/23/09.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
Picture a 30# block of rubber resting on your forehead, versus a golfball hitting you at (whatever) speed that would amount to 30# of energy. That is "felt recoil".
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,199
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,199 |
Good replies all.Speed of recoil is something that gets to me more than the lbs.of force.I can shoot 158 and `125 .357 Mags all day outta my gp 100 Ruger 3" at 35oz.Shootin' buds Sp 101 at 26oz and i'm ready to stop after a box.I keep a box of 225gr LFP bowling pin specials over 6.0 Unique for Officer's Acp shooters who speak of how "Quick recoil recovery is".
Bangflop! another skinning job due to .260 and proper shot placement.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,510
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,510 |
Yikes! Lots will go out to the trap range and pound 50 or 100 rounds of 12 gauge through a pump action and think nothing of it. Odds are that the 12 gauge probably kicks almost as much as a magnum rifle, even as big as a .375 Ouch and Ouch. Sometimes the key word is "perceived", eh?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,510
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,510 |
Speed of recoil is interesting way to put it.
My Vanguard 300 WM, with 180s, really "thumps", which wears me down quick. The 300 WSM not so much.
Longer case, and slower burning powder, for a prolonged initial reaction?
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,977
Posts18,519,915
Members74,020
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|