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Campfire Ranger
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alpinecrick said "To the best of my knowledge, those are not the same bucks--the buck killed between Telluride and Nucla--the one on the cover of his book-- (along the San Miguel) was carbon dated to be killed in 1976. Darner allowed the Mule Deer Foundation to take the head to Arizona to be dated."
Then you'd be wrong my friend. It has been proven by several people that it is indeed the same buck. Those pics have been transposed, flipped, etc by many experts and they are one in the same. End of story.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Don't be so quick to tie this guy to a stake and burn him, as a teenager growing up back in PA., my brother and I would read his mule deer hunting articles in various outdoor magazines. He helped put the 7mm Remington Mag in the lime light as a great western hunting cartridge and also inspired me to want to move out west where I have lived the last 30 years. He has written at least one book that I've read titled,"Hunting The Rockies". I have followed in bits and pieces his brushes with the DOW here in CO. where he resides in Montrose not far from where I live. I can't say what led to his move to unlawful activity in regards to wildlife violations, probably big money, but there are always 2 sides of a story and mostly I see the laws side in this case which isn't always as correct as we would like to see. To be stripped of his hunting and fishing privileges and lose his right to possess firearms has got to be as close to a living hell as one can get for an outdoors man like him. I only hope the best for him. Side note, AI Fool, I love the hell out of that 39A I bought from you, Thanks again! Whatever he may have done or been at one time, Kirt Darner is now a convicted felon and very deservedly so. Nothing more than a slime ball. Frankly, I think he got off lucky. IMHO he deserved a long vacation at state expense.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire Ranger
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Then you'd be wrong my friend. It has been proven by several people that it is indeed the same buck. Those pics have been transposed, flipped, etc by many experts and they are one in the same. End of story. Prove it. I look at trophy muley photos all the time--after a while they begin to look the same--it ain't the first time photos of different heads have been questioned as the same. Heck, I've examined elk antlers from different bulls side by side that were practically identical. And if one saw the antlers separately one would swear they were the same rack...... Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Whatever he may have done or been at one time, Kirt Darner is now a convicted felon and very deservedly so. Nothing more than a slime ball.
Frankly, I think he got off lucky. IMHO he deserved a long vacation at state expense. He was never convicted, he pled guilty--which is why he is probably walking free today. And yes, he did get off lucky--lucky in that he had a lawyer who began to shoot holes (pun intended ) in the prosecution's case. A couple years ago the federal and NM prosecutors were telling my taxidermist friend Darner was going to state or fed prison for a long time--but it didn't happen. --The authorities could never figure out what happened to the domestic elk that had their papers swapped with wild elk. --The two guys that Darner allegedly hired to steal the bighorn heads had prior convictions for felony theft--their word in court wasn't going to be worth much. --And the Lacey Act violations hinged on the above charges. --In addition, the trial had been delayed numerous times over a 3+ year period, and Darner was/is in bad health--at least he claimed. The prosecutors decided to take what they could in the end...... Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Casey-I wasn't commenting on his gun rights, I was just saying it sounds to me like he's been running outside the law in terms of taking game (poaching) and it sounds like he got off pretty darn easy.
I was only saying that I bet he'll do it again and most likely will get caught at it sooner or later.
I hope I'm wrong, but I bet I'm not.
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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He was never convicted, he pled guilty--which is why he is probably walking free today. ...
Technically you are right � he was not convicted by a jury. Instead he ADMITTED guilt and was sentenced accordingly. Not much difference to my way of thinking.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Casey-I wasn't commenting on his gun rights, I was just saying it sounds to me like he's been running outside the law in terms of taking game (poaching) and it sounds like he got off pretty darn easy.
I was only saying that I bet he'll do it again and most likely will get caught at it sooner or later.
I hope I'm wrong, but I bet I'm not.
Dober Dober, I wasn't suggesting anything else, it was just a side note Part of the plea bargan is no more hunting--ever. He cannot ever buy a hunting or fishing license again--anywhere. So ANY future wildlife heads in his possesion is a no-no. Besides, he's 70 years old and in so-so health, and he's probably spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees--he probably doesn't have a whole lot left.... Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Campfire Ranger
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JG, I'm aware of Larocco's article--he wrote another one about his dealings with Darner in one of the gun rags too. But there is still nothing definitive about photos--especially old grainy b&w photos. Honestly, I've seen racks that are incredibly close in size, structure, and texture. My dad killed a 190+ typical buck that has very similar bases on the Uncompahgre Plateau (not far from Darner's buck) in 1966. One more thing that a friend reminded me of today; I have most of the hardcover B&C books (except for the most recent ones). My 1981 B&C Records Of North American Game lists Darner's non-typical at 273 6/8--the buck was allegedly killed in 1977. The Naylor buck is also listed and was allegedly killed in 1948 and officially scores 270 3/8. Now, I don't know about you, but my experience has been antlers and horns continue to shrink for decades (maybe longer) after they have been killed. As a former B&C scorer, I'm also aware how much variability there can be in scoring techniques. But the Darner buck is 3 points larger than the Naylor buck. Even allowing for some difference in scoring techniques, and if I was scoring the same buck 3 decades apart, I would expect the Darner buck to score lower--and would be suspicious if it wasn't. But even after 30 more years of drying, the alleged same buck scores HIGHER? Now, I'm not going to be backed into a corner defending Kirt Darner, because as I pointed out in my first post on this thread, I have always had my own reasons for being suspicious of Kirt. So everybody can carry on, and I'll try and leave this thread alone....... Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Campfire Regular
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"In a plea agreement accepted by Judge Martinez-Olguin, Darner also agreed never to hunt, fish or possess a firearm in his lifetime."
Not that I'd ever get myself into the same position, but, if I ever heard a judge say those words about me, well, I guess I'd rather they just go ahead and hang me. Even if I was almost 70. I picture myself at 70 stump sittin' with a light recoiling rifle across my knees.
"May the LORD bless you and keep you, may His face shine upon you, may He be gracious and give you peace" from Numbers 6:24-26
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Campfire Tracker
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"In a plea agreement accepted by Judge Martinez-Olguin, Darner also agreed never to hunt, fish or possess a firearm in his lifetime."
Not that I'd ever get myself into the same position, but, if I ever heard a judge say those words about me, well, I guess I'd rather they just go ahead and hang me. Even if I was almost 70. I picture myself at 70 stump sittin' with a light recoiling rifle across my knees. I was plannin' to leave a note like.... I, Hatchet Jack, being of sound mind and broke legs, do leaveth my rifle to the next thing who finds it, Lord hope he be a white man. It is a good rifle, and kilt the bear that kilt me. Anyway, I am dead. Sincerely, Hatchet Jack.
Steve
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Now dat is one of my all time fav movies!
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire Member
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I've often said fame and money can take you places your character does not want to go. I think it's pretty accurate. There seems to be a very high proportion of "Great White Hunters" in the U.S. that have been "found out"--poaching or buying their heads. Or killing them with a rifle and claiming they were archery kills....... Casey Yep I hear that. I seem to recall that J. O'Connor wrote an article once that made the statement that one prominent archery hunter with many book entries was guilty of the punch an arrow in the bullet hole technique. He never came out and named the dude but apparently he was told by the offenders guides after the fact that this was the case.
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Campfire Tracker
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"Sure, sure, and I got a fine horse under me!"
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PRREDOG
If you will think back to the early 70s he was the darling hunting writer in more than one outdoor magazine . . . I was in Vegas NM at the time as I remember it he had some success publishing about his fishing also
Then his writing was not seen in any of them.
Ever wonder why?
Dober
As I was reading down through the postings I had the same opinion . . . in my lifetime he will be caught once again.
Last edited by LouisB; 04/22/09.
Some spelling errors can be corrected by a vowel movement. ~ MOLON LABE ~
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