Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Are lighted reticles a good idea?

I hunt some spots with thick laural bushes in deep gullies. It gets dark early in there. I have only seem a brand x lighted scope in use at dusk. The retical was to bright to see the target well. I know the brand name scopes offer adjustable settings. Will the lighted scopes really buy some more hunting time?
Also, if a man compared a 500.00- 600.00 Leupold to a 1200.00 - 1500.00 Euro scope in the same thicket, how much extra hunting time would he find? Thanks, 2nd wind

Illuminated reticles are an ingenius solution to a non-existent problem. A heavier, more prominent, reticle than the standard duplex will allow shooting for as long as you can see the target in the scope. And it will do it without batteries.

The answer to the second question, unless you're trolling, is that it depends on the individual. We have people on this forum that will swear on a stack of bibles to the superiority of each of your options.

Try them yourself and decide. Your opinion is better than anyone else's when it concerns your own perceptions.

Jim

Are lighted reticles a good idea?

Not at all, millions of stupid European hunters buying this far too overpriced ingenious solution to a non-existing problem must be completely wrong! (:-))

Good hunting in dawn and dusk!
Roe Deer

Just because millions of people do something doesn't make it right. Millions of people live in Europe, too. That doesn't make it a good idea.

I have always gotten the impression from his posts that the laurel thickets and gullies 2ndwind hunted were here in the states where, unlike many parts of Europe, it is usually illegal to hunt at night. In my experience, illuminated reticles are just not necessary to hunt during legal hours. I don't hunt in Europe. I don't hunt at night.

Besides, you shouldn't call millions of Europeans stupid. I'm sure many of them are just poorly informed.

Jim

ad 1. You're right: We buy very few Burrises and stuff here...

ad 2. You're right but he was asking a rather technical question...

ad 3. You're right: In the experience of our grandfathers, scopes at all were not necessary...

ad 4. Thank you: I will never call Americans stupid, just poorly informed...

So, as you took all the points, why arguing about "enlightening/enlighted" reticles?

Happy daylight hunting

Roe Deer

Roe Deer,

I wasn't aware that I was arguing about "enlightening/enlighted" reticles. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I merely explained to 2ndwind that, in my experience, illuminated reticles are not necessary. You are the one that seems to want to take exception to my opinion. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

1. I don't own any Burrises and stuff... In fact most of my scopes are of European manufacture. I have a Leupold, a Grand Slam and some vintage scopes, but mostly Zeiss, Swarovski and S&B although one is an IOR 8x56 with Illuminated reticle. I bought it to use on a low light stand rifle. It has a very thick reticle, about like a 4 or 4a. It was by using this that I discovered that I didn't need the illuminated feature during legal hunting hours.

2. His question did not seem technical to me.

3. Our grandfathers were right. Scopes are not necessary. They are, however, very helpful in some cases. Unlike illuminated reticles, in my experience.

4. I agree, many Americans are poorly informed. We even have things over here called Democrats! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm sorry if you take exception to my opinion. Do you have an opinion, or do you just want to belittle mine? If you have any experience with these matters, I'm sure that 2ndwind would like to hear your take on the advantages and disadvantages.

Good Luck hunting in the dark <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jim

I haven't bothered with them but jave changed reticles to something easily seen at dusk......and they may not be legal in Alaska...we do not have shooting hours and can take an animal at any hour as long as we do not use artificial light..

fwiw,
I've found the few Schmidt & Bender illuminated Retilces I've used to be positively first class. That said there are those who miss the point. Nightforce being a case in point. They illuminate the ENTIRE reticle which does your night vision NO good and makes it very difficult to find the target in question. Leupold is another who seems to fumble the ball. Has less to do with their reticle design and everything to do with their lack of reliability. That said Swarovski's illuminated scopes are often cited as having the same problem...

When it comes to illuminated reticles I think Schmidt & Bender and Aimpoint are on the right track. fwiw & imho.

Regards, Matt.

Hi Matt, Thank you for your thoughtful reply. May I ask where in VA you live? I am in the NW part of NC about 3 miles from the VA line.
No one stocks high end glass in my area & none of my friends have bought one... I am NOT trolling to stir up a flame war. I would like a chance to compare my Leupold in the shadows @ dusk with "other" scopes. I would be willing to drive a good distance if this is something you could help me out with. Better still, I have a benchrest and a 100 yard range in my backyard if you are ever in my area (trophy trout stream across the road too). Thank You, 2nd wind

Actually, FWIW, lighted reticles were developed initially to give military snipers more flexibility in questionable light conditions.

Later on, as hunters began to see the benefits of this development, companies like leupold and trijicon began really getting the development monies, they began marketing to the huge civilian market.

i own 2 trijicon acogs, the acronym of which is Advanced Combat Optical Gunsite. they've got tritium elements in 'em and while they're both supremely functional in normal light conditions, they really shine, so to speak, at dawn and dusk when my opportunity for whacking a coyote in the noggin with a 5.56 is probably the highest. no, i don't hunt at night, but the half-light of dawn and dusk makes whatever you can see through the standard leupold on my model 70 not so distinct.

heck, everyone who shoots knows the cross hairs in a scope are centered in the middle of the field of view, so it shouldn't be too big a deal to place that spot on your target. nonetheless, both trijicons i have seem to have better light-gathering properties than the leupolds i own.

heck, i guess you can just say it's another technological development whose actual worth hasn't been established at this point. i know illuminated scopes are expensive, but isn't all new technology normally quite pricey? i bought the acogs because i like 'em. i'm the guy that paid good money for 'em, and they are a made-fit for the AR15, and you can still use the irons under 'em.

if you don't like 'em for whatever reason, cool. don't buy one.

2ndwind,
I'm in Southeast Virginia about six miles from the NC line. I wish I could help you, however, I personally don't use any illuminated reticles(except the Aimpoint). I'm a Schmidt & Bender Dealer though I specializes in their PM II GEN III scopes. I'm quite fond of the S&B PM II 3-12x50 LP, however, at $2500ish it's a special order item. I think that particular illuminated reticle is done properly, however, it does'nt impress me enough to have one on a personal rifle.

I have a couple of the NXS Nightforces's in stock with illuminated Mil-Dots. That said I'm not a great fan of the execution and hence don't push the design. The NXS is a hell of a scope but the illuminated reticle is an afterthought.

I've generally found that the proper reticle answers the vast majority of lowlight issues. That said if extreme low light is your game, and hog hunting comes to mind, S&B's Flash Dot is reputed to be the item. Dave7mm is one of the guys who got me interested in S&Bs some time back fields that reticle in one of the new S&B 1.5-6x42 Zeniths. He has first person experience with that combination and I understand it performed superbly on a Texas Hog Hunt earlier this year... But that's his story...(grin)

I like the Schmidts and find the Nightforce NXS Scopes can be superb, however, for most situations I would recommend a Leupold VX-III with a good SFP 4a Reticle. That said there are a ton of options out there...

Regards, Matt.

Roe, you sure Europe has "millions" of hunters? If so, get'em in the NRA. I'm thinking the NRA would entertain a group discount.

Old Toot

Old Toot,



There are more European hunters than you would think. The Federation of Hunters Associations of the European Union represents approximately 7 million European hunters http://www.face-europe.org/fs-home.htm . To put this in perspective, the NRA membership is somewhere around 4 million. This is a comprehensive report on European hunting and the resulting economic impact http://www.traffic.org/news/traffic_jagstudie.pdf .

Old dog said: "Do you have an opinion, or do you just want to belittle mine? If you have any experience..."

Yes, I do have an opinion and and no, I don't want to belittle yours and yes, I do have experience.
I must admit though, that I have *only* about 21 years of first hand experience with illuminated reticles. I could (and will most probably) write a book on the subject and I think the illuminated aiming devices are worth every cent they cost more compared to standard - if you really need them.
There is two kind of: the night reticle you use in dim light (which I don`t use much) and the day&night reticles you can use in any condition, from low light sniping to bright daylight snapshots on moving targets. I don't know of one good American brand scope featuring really "dimmable" day&night reticles (Leupold is on the right track with their illum. series, though).
My working big game rifles almost all are mounted with Zeiss Varipoint and Schmidt und Bender Flashdot scopes, some with Swarovski High Grid Reticles.

If you don't want the stuff, don't buy but don't try to keep others from buying it, please.

@Old Toot: We are more than 7 Mio hunters in Old Europe. You and NRA are heavily welcome to join in, group rebate confirmed.

It's so nice to know what's behind the mountains.

Regards
Roe

I can see the utility of lighted reticles for hunting in Germany for pigs in eh moonlight after all that is why so many european scope makers produce the 50MM scopes. I dont see any real need for lighted reticles here int he states since by the time they would really help it is not legal to shoot anyway.

Roedeer where are you in Germany? I spent 3 years in Heilbron au Necker. tom

Tom,
I'm living and hunting in the heart of Europe (vicinity N�rnberg).
Talking lighted reticles, for many situations a scope featuring a red "day&night" dot *in addition* to the reticle is far superior to the standard black reticle. See the Schmidt und Bender and Zeiss websites (search Flash Dot and Varipoint)
Roe

Roe
I never thought of hunting much in Germany, I was born in Bamberg and have family still there. glad to see someone else at the campfire from my old home.

Roe Deer,





If you dont mind my asking what was your first illuminated reticle scope? I have also read that your a member of DEVA.

Could you please describe for us what DEVA is and what a member does?

Your carpenter friend from Pennsylvania <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

dave

I am an American shooter that has used an illuminated reticle, unlike many of the correspondents that have offered opinions. I use a Leupold (favorite of many here) 1.5-5x20 Vari-X III scope with the illuminated reticle. It is adjustable for brightness.
I find the reticle useful. During the day, it functions as a normal scope, with a fairly fine X-hair. I don't hunt at night either, but there are certainly plenty of shadows in the bushes and trees in the early morning and dusk hours. And when your normal X-hairs disappear, it really can help to light it up for perspective on the target you are shooting.

Definitely don't knock it if you haven't tried it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I have four lighted T/C scopes on my Contenders. I have used them a few times on black piggies in black woods late in the day. I just purchased a Browning A-Bolt Hunter in .243WSSM and put a Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5-10 40mm FireFly on it. No batteries, won�t burn out your retina, and once you �charge� it up it will stay usable for about 6-8 hours, then all you need to do is �charge� it again. BTY you �charge� it buy shinning a flashlight in the eyepiece for 10-15 seconds. The crosshair then glows with that green firefly light. Bushnell even packages a small micro maglight with the scope. I like those that I have and have used them, made things a bit easier but I don�t consider NOT having them a hunt breaker. I also have a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14X44AO MC on my CZ452. Very nice scope and I enjoy using it but my Leupolds are just as bright and the Bushnells may be a bit brighter.