Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game .308 with premium 180 vs 30-06 with 220's

So the argument is always that the 30-06 is the better gun for large game like moose and brown bear due to the ability to shoot 200's and 220's. Now days with premium bullets like the TSX and A frame wouldn't a .308 be as effective as the 30-06 on large game?

I was kind of curious because I've never heard of anyone using a .308 for brown bear but there are quite a few people using 06's and 220's. Is a 220 out of an 06 still a more effective stopper than a 180 grain TSX or A frame out of a .308?

Apples and apples, or apples and oranges? If you compare a 308 with premium bullets to a 30-06 with standard bullets, then of course they'll be very close. However, compare a 308 with premium bullets to a 30-06 with premium bullets, and the 30-06 is going faster, with the same bullet. Faster is usually better and more effective.

Friend of mine killed a nice grizzly with 200 gr Noslers in his '06 DRT as some of you Americans like to say . The 30-06 will have an edge over the 308 especially with 200 gr + bullets like the 220 gr Partitions or 240 gr Woodleigh.

It's been proven time and time again that big slow moving bullets kill better than light fast ones.Usually downrange energy is quite a bit more with heavier bullets

I'll take the '06, thanks..... grin

I really do like the 308. I just can't seem to get it in the same sentence as Brown Bear.

i'm with huntr. give me the 06'.

It's either or, you would not be able to tell the difference. Maybe after a few hundred head, but how many moose and or Brown Bear do you expect to shoot in your life time? My uncle hunted moose every year from 1964 till he could not walk anymore in 1996. And in all that time he collected a Moose just about every season. Shot nothing but a 308 and 180 gr bullets. Mostly factory Remington's. Oh there was one issue with my Uncle, he was one of the fastest field shots I ever seen, and he never missed. He also knew how to get positioned for a good shot too.

It certainly hasn't been proven to my satisfaction as fast and light can provide very dramatic DRT kills.

Slow and heavy will generally penetrate better but often will not kill as quickly.

It all depends on the specific circumstances. If going for griz I'll take fast and heavy (with manageable recoil, of course)...

True. But I reaally don't see 30-06 and Brown Bear, either--not when rifles are so cheap.

A true Brown bear rifle is only 700 dollars (375 Ruger Alaskan? or 7600 in 35 Whelen)

I for one, would take the 180 TSX in a 308 at 2600 FPS equal a 30-06 220 at 2400.

Of Course, the 30-06 180 TSX at 2700 is MATHEMATICALLY better, but shot placement means more than the diff between these loads.

BMT

I once read that the .308 has killed more Elephant than any other cartridge in history. This is of course based upon the presumption of using FAL's for damage control and the rebel armies poaching as well.

The point is you can kill most anything with lower powered cartidges, but when it comes to critters that matter more power is better......

To answer your question, IMO, yes a 308 loaded with modern powders (e.g. N550) and modern bullets (e.g. TSX) would be at least on par with a 50s - 80s vintage -06 with 50s to 80s vintage bullets.

I often wonder how did man manage to kill millions of buffalo and about that many antelope on the American land scape without "premium bullets", much less modern powder.

I remember reading accounts of hunters killing bears in Alaska with a 30-06. Odd are about a 1,000,000 to 1 the bear could not tell the difference if hit with either caliber.

IIRC the Grizzly that is on the California State Flag was gone by the time modern powder was invented. How on earth could that have possibly been accomplished?

I am sorry Wisam this post is not directed at you just that these bullet threads become asinine to the extreme.

Good point; people really get to splitting RCHs that needn't be split.

You might be surprised at how many people I've run into that think a 30-06 is OK for moose but shake their heads about using a 308 on the same. None that really question it though have ever run the ammo over a chrongraph or given the issue much critical thought.

The idea that the TSX will turn smaller cartridges into bigger, better penetrating cartridges assumes a couple of important ideas.

One, that the TSX will open as equally reliably as a conventional bullet... Two, that it will open as reliably at longer range as a conventional bullet.

Here's a 150 TTSX, shot from a 308 Win and recovered from an elk that didn't open...



Aside from the above, I'd happily load a 180 Partition in the 308 and sally forth to slay all NA beasts. The 30-06 is even better, but kicks more.

brad - thanks for an excellent post. there are several reasons why every bullet manufactured today is judged against the partition. your pic clearly demonstrates one.

TSX issues only happen to other guys, it'll never happen to me...

A maxim that always worked for me was, if your game is light (deer, pronghorn, etc) then your bullet should be fast and light. If your game is heavy and tough (elk, moose, the big bears, etc), then your bullet should heavy and by capacity, slower. You can get away with using a heavy slow bullet on light game, but usually the reverse has not always worked to satifaction....

For example, in a 30 cal a 165 gr TSX may well penetrate deeper than a 200 gr cup and core, but a 200 gr TSX, again for example, will penetrate deeper yet.

Any game that can bite , claw, or stomp you to death, deserves the "very best" you can deliver. What the "very best is" is up to you.

Bob

Wisam, I can only say that back in the late 1940's and 1950's, many many big bears killed were with a 30-06 caliber and 220 grain Winchester Silver Tip bullets. Bears that did square 10ft back in those days were plentiful compared to today.

I will put my neck on the chopping block by saying the .308 Winchester caliber while being a very accurate caliber, is not in the same league with the 30-06 using 220 or 250 grain bullets on big grizzly bears. The .308 does not have enough gas in the tank for 200 grain bullets.

Now ever since the Magnum Craze that started in the late 50's, the 30-06 has been taken down a notch or too in thoughts of not being big enough for the job at hand. I can only say that it did do the job but with game like big bears, remember the 30-06 is not a STOPPER if something should go wrong. If your going to hunt the big bears, use at least a .375H&H ok. Now those are not my words but those of a very experienced bear hunter, who became a legend in Alaska while on this earth.

BRAD, I have had an off and on relastionship with Barnes X bullets not opening or shooting very well in my hunting rifles since the 90's ok. I have read a lot about the miracle bullet, TSX but am still skeptical as I know for myself, what past Barnes bullets have done and not done.

I am still doing some tests in various calibers with their TSX bullet but I thank you for showing us that bullet you retrieved from an elk. It is very similar to some I have seen some years back, including their super fast "blue XLC bullet" that did not open for me on an elk.

Times they are a changin': Today's 308 can reach the same velocity as yesterday's 30-06, including with 220s. If the 30-06 worked on big bear (did and does), the 308 will work pretty much identically.