Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Wool or synthetic base layer?

Actually, heat tolerance is a process the body goes through if you live in a particularly warm climate. What happens is the body grows hundreds of tiny capillaries under the skin so that the heat build up in the blood can disperse without the body having to release much moisture. Much like a radiator. But one must stay warm to maintain this. You can't develop anything significant like this if you spend much time in air conditioned environments when it's warm.
Good luck, E

do these synthetics that smell have a silver type component in them to fight order?

I have synthetics that have silver in them and they do ok for odor issues.

I'll add my input on wool drying and it was a sorta extreme circumstance. To set the stage, never take a carbed ATV to 10,000 K feet from 200 feet.... anyway it didn't run and made us take a long hike to start with to get to the wilderness boundary.
When it was time to leave, we headed out after a tstorm blew over. Full loads and on a "shortcut" I attempted to walk across a bog, not having any clue in my feeble head that even in rocky mountains a bog could be dangerous, I assumed it couldn't be deep. Wrong. First step I ended up with a 70 pound pack down to my waist soaked. I managed to grab a tree and come back out. That was with merino wool. and Nylon outer layer. Temps where in the 40s headed to 20s that evening. I simply walked off. By the time we got back to the base camp wiht the vehicles it was many hours later, but along the way, even when we stopped now and then for breaks, I never did get cool or cold. The wool did its job for me, and I'm from TX as y'all know, and more used to 100s- though I hate them,and anything below 60 I"mlooking for a thin jacket at least.....

Synthetics probably would have worked as well, but we'd have had to deal with the stink. And with the wool, we've been able to open pit zips for vents, IE zip off shorts, and zipper and vent the pants and such enough that we can walk the wool through 70s without too much of an issue, IE can avoid the PITA of stopping to take a layer off, then put it back on and such.

Jeff

I have no doubt your story is quite true. But I'd point out that you kept moving. That continued to add heat to the wet gear and hence to dry it out.
I've got another wool vs. synthetic story. I've used all sorts of high quality wool socks my whole life. I'm wearing a relatively thin pair of Patagonia Merino Wool socks as I post this. It's what I prefer to use when I go for my canyon walks with my 35 lb. pack.
They do not dry when wet with use anything like my Dahlgren synthetic socks do. While you might notice that Dahlgren socks do have merino wool heels and toes, they are predominately made of synthetics. I've notice they dry much faster than my merino wool socks do. In fact, when I use the merino wool socks with my Asolo Gore-Tex boots, they don't dry at all. But the Dahlgrens pretty much do. All but the heels and toes. Which are made with those areas of wool, not for their wicking properties, I'm told, but for the long wear characteristics. Which is why I use wool as my workout socks.
I've had my boots fill with snow and soak my feet while snowshoeing down a mountain in winter. I walked them almost completely dry in an hour. No wool sock could have done this. It was a good thing. By the time I was down, the sun had set, the temperature had fallen drastically and I had on all of my extra clothing in an effort to keep just barely warm. But my feet were fine. That's because my socks were all but completely dry. Those socks are what make Gore-Tex boots practical w/o insulation for year round use. And the secret is their use of synthetics. E

I am now a fan of thin merino wool bottoms and tops after using them for the last 2 years. They seem to have a lot wider comfort range than any synthetic I have used.
If I had no access to heat or the truck at the end of a hunt and the conditions were extreme then I would start to lean towards synthetics. I feel that synthetics clearly dry faster after getting sweated wet or snon/rain wet. As far as which one wicks moisture better I guess I am not sure but I sure like wool for overall comfort.

I became convinced of wool only for base layers when we lived off the grid for three years. In the winter we had to snowshoe 3+ miles morning and again evening to get to the truck. Several feet of snow overnight or during the day wasn't uncommon. Some days I'd be pulling a heavy sled or carrying a heavy pack while going through the deep snow.

We would get to the cabin between 10:30 & 11:00 PM. The cabin would be very cold and fires needed to be built.

It didn't take me long to notice that if I was wearing a synthetic base layer, I'd have to strip down and put on dry clothes before I begin building fires and other chores or else I'd get very chilled.

If I was wearing Merino as a base layer, I was not only fine to do all the chores, but would wear the wool to bed.

We logged over 650 snowshoe miles one winter, with temperatures down to -42F and lots of wind.

Everyone is welcome to wear what ever they want, be it a Capilene G-String or Merino boxers. I know what works for me and as I have said before, I have tried them all in varying conditions. I wouldn't go back to synthetic base layers for anything.

I've had many days elk hunting where the temperature was fairly warm, 30-35 F and snowing wet glopy crap. Often when climbing, I'll just wear a Merino top. Gets wet? You bet, but I stay comfy and as the day goes, the snow either stops or I add a wind shell when I have finished climbing. Either way I walk the wool dry.

Great post Ed.

E, bottom line is they both work and use what works best for you. I've taken both types off and wrung them out and put them back on. I've never been cold with damp/wet wool, even when sitting still(fell off the float of a float plane in AK +25 and cold water, and the wool was wet but I didn't move, long story there...) Synthetics same, and they do dry quicker. But the bottom line for me is I got to hot to quick in synthetics, like the use of neoprene gloves here, thought they were great water wise but the hands froze... found out it was too good and we weren't cold enough and hence the sweating....making hands cold. Just as wet inside as outside of the glove picking up decoys... But beyond it not being as stable for me in a wider temp range has been the stink. Even with silver after a few days its tough. Fishing and such, no big deal, but hunting we try to keep it to a minimum even though we hunt the wind at all times.

Glad the synthetics work for you,and they work for many other folks too, I"ve just come to the same conclusions basically as some others, my bottom line for me it'll be layered silk and M wool. And EdT doesn't even mention silk so I'm different than he is evidently, but works for me.

BTW I run synthetics a lot on duck hunts and the like, only out for a day max and smell doesn't make a difference and so on. And wear them to work in also.

Jeff

I usually combine wool and fleece depending on the temp and weather conditions.

I have been following this discussion with some interest. I have a question maybe you guys can answer: how does Under Armour compare with the previously mentioned merino wool and capilene? You certainly hear a lot about it, but I am not one to believe the hype. Ed? E? Others?

Most synthetic base layers are polyester. This is because it wicks; however, it is not a good insulator (your mid-layer and outer-layer is then designed to provide insulation).

I think UA is just a fad brand name. I believe it's no different than any other synthetic; however, that being said, I'm pretty ignorant about it. I ASSume UA is just a brand name for a polyester base layer. Someone better versed should let me know.

I posted initially about wool and synthetics and that wool works better for me. One of the main reasons for this, as I live in the Pacific Northwest, I cannot keep dry. If I have a waterproof outer-layer, my under layers will be wet from sweat; if I do not they will be wet from rain. Wool insulates when wet. It absorbs up to 30% of it's weight in water before even feeling wet, then it continues to insulate even when soaked.

For those that love the fact the synthetics dry quickly...well, for me, after using sythetics (and I still do sometimes) I've come to realize I don't have to be dry to be warm. I used to not like the rain to get me wet, then I decided to just run with it. Let it rain, let it snow, let the rain freeze, it just doesn't matter, because, even when my clothes are wet, I'm warm. I've had my socks literally freeze, then melt and provide insulation in my boots. Basically they thaw, then become warm as I walk, and continue to insulate even wet (never depend on Gore-Tex, dress as if it will leak ).

I camp in the snow, so I sit, I walk, I hike, I do chores, etc., when it's cold and the ground is covered in snow and ice. What I like about wool is if I start moving I get warm (internal body core temperature rises) and my clothes begin insulating because they are wool. My synthetics don't insulate nearly as well when wet so I have to dry them. I have to sit next to the fire, or change my clothes when wearing sythetics. With wool I can put on my underwear and socks and I'm just going to get warm. If I wear my wool to bed, wet or dry, it's dry by morning, and it's warm all night.

Synthetics get wet and no longer insulate, they don't trap air (which is what makes a garment feel warm). Wool, even wet, provides loft, which provides insulation.

I've had a friend ask me if I had sweat on my back because when I leaned back in the truck the seat got wet. He felt the outer wool garment I was wearing and said, "Damn, you're all wet." My response was, "Really? I couldn't even tell." This was coming in after spending three days in 20 - 35 degree weather. My wool underwear and mid-layer had wicked sweat, as well as snow and rain, to the outside of the mid-layer where it could evaporate. I didn't feel the wetness at all and was as warm as if I'd been wearing dry clothes. That's the beauty of wool.

I realize everyone has different experiences, but after being an avid outdoorsman, trained in wilderness survival, trying silk, synthetics (capilene, polypropylene, etc.), wool and everything else out there I am amazed more people aren't using wool. I just don't know how it's not working as well for everyone as it is for me. Then again, I don't spend my time always trying to stay dry anymore, I try to stay properly insulated. Wool does that for me. By the way, I still really like silk as a base layer, for wicking. It's also great stuff.

I'm still trying to figure out how anyone can run 100K. Crazy.

I'd just like to add that I've compared Patagonia's mid weight merino wool base to their medium weight capliene and to their silkweight capliene. The silkweight dries far faster than the wool does. The medium capliene is next. The wool is slower still.
You can argue that while both are wet, the wool insulates better. But that is misleading. Base layers, in my book at least, are basically there to provide a fast drying base next to the skin. If it's wet next to the skin, you will feel cold. Additional insulation won't do much to help.
I've always used my base layers with Patagonia's Regulator Fleece. Big difference between Regulator Fleece and the other makes like Polar Guard. I won't even consider using Polar Guard in the field. Because it doesn't pass moisture worth a hoot.
Wool shirts don't work nearly as well as Regulator Fleece. Again because they don't dry as much or nearly as fast. This is an important distinction. The whole system must work together to work properly.
The other thing is that I can always, where I go, vent well enough to get all of this stuff reasonably dry. The big trick is to not let the internal moisture build up before you either open the vents on your shell garment or peel off those additional layers of insulation.
The other thing is, when you say synthetic base layer, I don't know how well any other brands work. But I do know that there is a big difference in insulation layers. How warm they are total, and, even more important, how well they pass moisture. Apparently Patagonia's Regulator clothing works so well because it maintains it's dead air spaces w/o absorbing moisture readily. The moisture tends to pass through it easily instead of getting absorbed. Again, both the base and the insulation layer work together. And that's where I get the basis for my choices between these two.
How other synthetics or other insulation layers would work with capliene is not what I'm really prepared to comment on. Now I have used my capliene silkweight top with the medium weight merino wool base layer top on top of that like a thin insulation layer and that works well. But I'm using it as insulation, not a base. E

The thing is with wool is even if the outside surface is wet a dry, warm micro climate remains against your skin.

When you exert hard enough, anything is going to get wet and with synthetics there is often a time such as when you stop that there isn't enough heat production to continue to move moisture out and you are wet and cold.

As far as regulator fleece, Patagonia had exclusive right for the 1st year but now is available from many makers. And I agree it is better than other fleece, but I'll still chose a wool mid layer.

Where I use synthetics, is in a true insulative layer, such as Mont-Bell Thermawrap or Patagonia Pullball.

Aces nailed with the don't worry about wet. Wear wool and you are comfortable all the time. Lots better temperature range than any synthetic.

I ran Mt Helena yesterday. Its 1100' climb and it was snowing, 30 F and windy. I was wearing a lightweight Icebreaker Merino top and over the top wore a Mont-Bell wind jacket. When I got back down the inner of the wind jacket was soaked. I got in my truck, drove home to feed the dogs and went back to work, still wearing the now totally dry Merino top.

Yeah, we definitely have different experiences. I don't know why. I remember when capilene came out (I was an avid climber at the time). I thought it had to be the best thing since sliced bread. Then I had sliced bread, and I realized it didn't work as well for me as I thought it would. Really though, there are a lot of good products out there.

I wasn't trying to be misleading about the wool base layer. When you say it's "basically there to provide a fast drying base next to the skin. If it's wet next to the skin, you will feel cold. Additional insulation won't do much to help" I somewhat disagree. I think of the baselayer as the wicking layer. Wool, in my opinion, wicks very well; however, all fabrics will get wet (with outside moisture or sweat) dependent on your activity level. I have to play in pretty cold weather sometimes, sitting or hiking, and a baselayer has to play a wicking role, usually based on perspiration. Wool does that, and there is no way any fabric I wear as a base layer will remain dry. Even when a material wicks, it is wet; however, it may be allowing the moisture to move away from the skin. My base layer will become wet, there is no way around it. With wool, I don't have to worry about whether it's wet. It is wet, just like a synthetic would become, then if moves the moisture throught it (even though it is very thin, it is also providing the most basic insulation). So, for me, and in my opinion, I disagree with your statement that if your baselayer is wet you will feel cold. That's where finding a good wool baselayer has changed the playing field. I can be wet and not cold, even at the "base" layer level.

Your mileage may vary

So I went alookin' for some Smartwool Microweight...yikes, they think a lot of that stuff! $40+ for a T-shirt! Anybody know of a way to score some of this stuff for cheaper? I also read a few reviews that said it is not very durable. Has that been your experience guys?

It is a good thing Fathers Day is coming up!

I do have an Under Armour top and have been impressed with its wicking....but that is compared to cotton. I have no comparison to other polyesters. Another question...is all polyester equal? What makes Capilene better than a Costco polyester?

Powder Horn in Bozeman had the smartwool T's on sale for 20 bucks a while back. Im not sure if there is any left but you might want to give them a call.

I also love merino wool as a base layer. in the summer I use the 140 wt Icebreaker tops when its really hot, all summer long. Breathes and wicks better than anything else I've tried.

I received a HH baselayer for free at the OR Show and tried it for a few days while working out. Afterwards, I felt like I was wearing a rain coat. Very clammy to my skin, anyway.

I am convinced that everyone's different when it comes to their skin and what feels right.

Charlie Jennings

I have had very good durability on all my Merino. Usually 2 X 1 over Synthetic. Holds its shape berrt as well.

The only exception I have had is with Patagonia's Merino. It doesn't seem to ho;d its shape as well and one top pilled real bad.

I thing there is definately a difference in polyesters as well as Merino. The more well known brands are of a higher quality.

I bought a couple Merino tops from Target. They wera as soft as and as nice as any - until I washed them then they wouldn't fit a six year old.

Watch Sierra Trading and similar close out outlets. Top brand Merino often goes on sale in spring and summer.

Wool or synthetic?

After using Icebreaker wool for the past several years, I am sold.
Don't think I will ever go back to synthetic for my base layer use.