Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing One more ? on finishing new checkering

Back in 1976 I bought a new Ruger #1 barreled action. I bought a nice piece of what was then called "French Walnut" for it and sent that to Fajen's for semi-inletting. I had previously refinished a couple of stocks so proceeded with the #1. I made a few wood fitting screw ups, due to lack of proper tools but I was thrilled with the finished stock overall. I never tried to checker it or have it done until just a couple weeks ago.

It has arrived back home and the 33 year old Lin-Speed stock looks as good as ever. The new checkering is just that much more impressive.

The only question I have is in regard to the checkering. It's about as sharp as the diamonds cut into some S&W hammers and I don't want to jeopardize that. My plan for finishing that raw wood is to mix up some Lin Speed 50/50 with linseed oil and brush in one or two, (at most), coats with a tooth brush.

I had to put the rig in the safe to keep from grabbing it and going after it without asking you guys. This would be my first time finishing fresh new checkering.

I would appreciate any ideas you may have or any comments about my plan.

Thanks

We can't help you without pictures.

Bruce

You have the right idea...

Thin the finish a bit more than 50:50, use a soft bristled tooth brush, and "blot" it "dry" with an absorbant cloth...you'll be amazed at how much finish the raw checkering will actually take. You might end up with 3 or 4 coats in it.....

I would not dilute the Lin-Speed at all. Linseed oil should not be any thinner than the Lin-Speed. If it is, polymerization has started and it is time to get new...

It will make no difference if you use Tru-Oil or any other oil finish. Put it on heavy, wait 15 minutes or so, adding more as it sucks it up and rub dry, then brush every line clean with the toothbrush.

OR... Not... Many leave the checkering exactly as it comes, with fine dust in the lines. Great wood, like French, is plenty hard and plenty tough and will do just fine. Oil finishes are really not doing any waterproofing or sealing...

I usually oil and brush... But I use a lot of softer and more porous woods...

What sitka said
and those points will wear down, its unavoidable. If you use it, it wears.
Dembart makes a super checkering oil- btw

In 30 years from now, you'll need to have stripped, refinished and repointed again.

I'm sure that's possible but it will be someone else's problem long before then. For right now, I couldn't wear it down with a hammer, (unless I dropped it a whole lot).

I just hope it's still legal and still in the family in 30 years. I pray it doesn't end up being melted down for scrap and the wood burned to heat the homeless or the proletariat.

Not gonna get into a debate with Art on this, but I've never had trouble putting multiple coats of thinned finish in checkering....

Art's right, oil is oil per lack of waterproofing/sealing and for that reason makes no difference if it's thinned or not. But straight finish, especially when applied heavy and then left for a while produces a shine even after it's brushed. I've never been a fan of glossy checkering, or glossy stocks for that matter.

If you really want to thin it use naphtha, sparingly

No matter what I finish the stock with I do the checkering with two coats of Pilkingtons Red Oil..It is water thin and I use a small brush and blot it on..It is the last step I do in building a custom stock....Whatever you use dilute it to water thin with Cigerette lighter fluid for a high gloss or Mineral Spirits for anything less than high gloss..

The solvent is going to affect the gloss in the checkering? Very interesting and something I have not found. The concept of lighter fluid flashing before the oils polymerize and mineral spirits sticking around longer and impeding cure (one of the many reasons thinning is a losing proposition) causing the flatter surface can be shown on broad surfaces. But I have not seen anyone attacking a broad surface with a toothbrush to guarantee everything got removed...
art

Wilds
Not trying to debate, just pointing out the facts of putting the oil in checkering. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing, it will work.

My comments only run to the basic places where people get in trouble finishing stuff. Thinners in oil finish cause curing problems. Lots of them. Someone finds a half-jelled bottle of Tru-Oil and decides he wants to thin it and use it may find a whole world of gummy trouble ahead.

Thinners made it possible...

I stick to the "no thinners unless abolutely needed" rule to help reduce that sort of error. I spend a lot of time helping people fix that exact problem.

In the end, thinners do not improve anything, ever. They do make it easier to apply various finishes, sometimes. And I suppose it could be argued a better looking finish is an improved finish... But structurally, thinners may damage finish, too.

Fresh oil is extremely thin and no thinners are needed.
art

I use Tru-Oil Art, exclusively.

Out of the bottle, as you know, it is somewhat thick and tends to gloss a recess if it's not rubbed out completely in that recess...last I looked all my checkering is chock full of recesses.

You simply cannot completely rub out straight Tru-Oil in checkering, as you would on the rest of the stock, without damaging the points. A toothbrush is the only thing that's works the best and it just does not get everything "rubbed"...somewhere in there you'll have shine, which is built-up finish, in the bottom of the checkering that doesn't match the rest of it.

I cut it with VMP&Naptha and apply several coats a few days apart with a soft bristled toothbrush. Thinning it allows it to soak in easier/faster and the final brushing and blotting create an overall result that is more appealing to my eye.

I don't much care what other's do.....

The chemistry of drying oils tell us that using thinners will promote a structurally 'weaker' finish. The individual molecules that make up the liquid state of drying oils become chemically bonded to each other upon drying (polymerization). It might be useful to think of the oil molecules as long chains of atoms with multiple sites with zippering capability. Thinners in effect, dilute the oil molecules so that they are farther away from each other. What results is that the number of bonds (like the number of zipper teeth hooked to each other) between oil molecules are fewer and thereby 'weaker'. Using a fresh undiluted drying oil, as Art suggests, allows for the most efficient penetration into the wood pores (because the oil molecules are still at their smallest size and not yet polymerized) and yet promote the 'strongest' finish because the number of potential chemical bonds have not been diminished by dilution.

As advised by most if not all application instructions, applying subsequent coats before the previous one has completely dried (fully polymerized) allows for chemically bonding between the layers.

http://www.sydneywoodturners.com.au/site/articles/finishing/oils.html

Nicely put!

The one thing I would add is the way much of it works is to form linked "puddles" with very weak links between small areas, rather than uniformly weak links throughout the finish layer... and much like how it acts between layers.

The thing most do not realize is how thin Tru-Oil starts... When Wilds describes it as thick out of the bottle I know immediately he has old oil. Even if just purchased the stuff is often too old to use.

That is why I usually prefer to mix a little straight oil with a little good plastic and oil finish. If fresh they will be very thin and work extremely well.

Tru-Oil has its place and will work fine for most applications and using it as Wilds is will not cause problems and will do what it is supposed to... Knowing the whys of what goes on in the finish is the best way to eliminate failures.
art

Wilds
I apologize for typing like you weren't in the room... I trust you get where I am coming from.

I have made my dislike for thinners clear for a long time. I can give you many sob stories involving old oils "salvaged" by solvents creating serious messes.

The other point about solvents is the fact they have to leave the finish before the finish can cure. They go deep into the finish layer also, because the wood acts as a filter for the solids and the oils. They get behind that layer.

They tend to be large molecules. Huge when compared to water molecules. Any opening a solvent molecule can get through a dozen water molecules can go through holding hands and not even ducking their little heads. The holes they come from run all the way through the finish layer.

Water resistance is easily tested and thinned finishes cannot compete with unthinned.

Again, the point is only about what can happen if things are taken too far. Most of the time it will work.
art

Interesting info on how finishes cure! two cents worth from one who does a lot of checkering: I do not use linseed oil to seal the checkered area, for fear that dust, dirt debris etc will become stuck to the diamonds I try so hard to make sharp and clean.I like Daly's Ben Matte finish because it penetrates and cures quickly. I use a toothbrush to brush in oil that collects in the bottom of the grooves to make for an even surface appearance. The Ben Matte can be built up in several coats for a shiny appearance also. One or two coats is what I usually apply.

I just finished a job and out of curiosity I used very thinned automotive clear coat (the max the company recommended, looked more like alcohol than finish) theres a "slow" cataylist allows quite a few minutes to work with it. This instead of my favorite Dembart checkering oil
masked off stock, used my airbrush to spray the checkering
holy cow fantastic. Amazing how it soaked in, Points are razor sharp and really hard. the stock was a high gloss, so no problems there, but I could see this not working on a matte/satin finish without flatners in the mix, and that would thicken it up- just my .02

Thinners do resist a complete bond, but that is only half the story..How much difference does this make..IMO, not a hell of a lot.

If, in fact, you want a sanded in the wood finish, then you are pretty well locked into useing thinner and make a mud that goes into the pores and then you get that egg shell finish that is so desired on Custom rifles..I use 1/3 True Oil, 1/3 Mineral Spirits and 1/3 of some hot finish as a rule..Is this finish as water proof as a built up finish of stright Urathane finish, no it is not and it requires more upkeep, but it is definately better looking that the shiny bright finish that looks like a new car....The high gloss, uncut, finish is very waterproof and ugly as hell and you might as well dip it and be done with it.

I will continue to do the sanded into the wood finishes that have served me so well over the last 50 plus years, and live with the fact that they won't bond, which is pretty much a case of being et up with techknowledgy, that may or may not be applicable to rifle stocks inasmuch as stocks finished in diluted finish seem to work long and hard over a number of years and some of mine are over 50 years old..

But if you want to circumvent all this possible hoopla then try Brownells GunSavR in satin finish, right out of the spray can..I have been using it for about 6 months, and after 50 years of looking for the perfect finish and building hundreds of rifle stocks, I found it.

I only modified it by prior to application I slop True Oil filler all ove the stock until it shines all over then let that cure for a month...Then wet sand it about two or three times, abd wipe it clean and spray about 4 to 5 coats of GunSavR on it, let cure and then rub down with Rottenstone and oil. Wipe clean and let it sit for a week..

For a totally waterproof finish I would use clear Varathane wet sanded in and then apply about 10 coats wiped off each time and build up a high gloss finish..Its pretty, its durable and waterproof and shiny like my car bumper, gag!...It also has Tuanol in it, and that is supposedly a cancer causing product, so guess you better use rubber gloves...:)