Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Any ex-infantrymen here?

Have reflected lately that the best times I've had have been when I'm hiking, hunting and camping. I really like living outside, and haven't really minded the times when I was cold and tired after packing for long distances. <P>Am tired of my desk job, am in great shape, and I always wanted to be a soldier. I just got caught up in sales and then started a business after college. I want to go into the Army and try to become a Ranger, and am getting conflicting advice. The main sticking point seems to be my age: nearly 34 years old. I know there are soldiers lurking around here, both young and old. I guess I wanted to ask some hunters and outdoorsmen who are ex-infantry if they'd do it over again.<P>The scoop is I'd start out as an E-4, have to sign up for either 3 or 4 years, and would either go to the 82nd Airborne or to the 75th Ranger Regiment. Want to make it through Ranger school either way. Not looking to make a career of the Army, but just want to know what it's like and be able to sit and contemplate it along with my navel when I'm old.<P>If anybody here has done it, would you do it again? Thanks for any advice you can give. Justin

I came out of the Army in 1975 as an 11B40, there are those who will know that that may give me some qualification to answer.<P>If you want to go for it then more power to you, however.....<P>Where are you in your career? Do you want to be yelled at by guys 12-14 years younger than you? Do you like the latest music,hip-op, rap, whatever? Are you up on the latest cool stuff for 18 year olds? If not you may find yourself somewhat lacking in camaraderie.<P>How are you at taking orders from a mental midget who happens to have one more stripe than you because he joined a few months before you?<P>How intellectual are you? This is kind of going out on a limb here, and maybe the average GI is different now, but let's say that the average GI in the Infantry line units that I knew were not exactly interested in the latest issue of Scientific American.<P>How much can you stand hurry up and wait? How much can you stand being treated the same as the lowest common denominator in the unit? <P>As to physical fitness, airborne PT was a bit overblown IMHO. When I went through you had to do 7 pullups, 21 pushups and some dinky amount of situps, and run three miles with about a 100 yard walk between each mile.<P>Hope you are in GREAT shape for the Rangers, though, as I understand they require a bit more. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]<P>Okay, not knocking the Army or any of the services all that much. I was tighter with my buds there than with anyone else I've ever known. I had adventures that I never would have had otherwise. I met leaders who I would have followed into Hell (regardless of the minority of mental midgets mentioned above).<P>Being 34 you probably have a lot more on the ball than the average 18 year old, so will probably be picked for leadership roles early on. Since you probably have more responsibility than the average 18 year old you will be picked on to lead details and otherwise be given a bit more respect (maybe). However, most of your officers and NCO's will still be younger than you. You will be the "odd guy" and the Army likes conformity.<P>All of the hardships can be overcome, but I think the main thing that would get to you would be the cultural difference between yourself and the 18 year old troopies around you. Hell, when I was in a 32 year old guy was called "Pops".<P>I dunno. The Army was great for me because I was a stupid 19 year old and it made me a man. If you are already a man and do not need to be given a direction in life...<P>Like I said, more power to you.

Things must have changed since I got out in 94! At that time they wouldn't take anyone over 28 I think!<P>Remember unless things have changed they can't guarantee Ranger school only RIP(Ranger Indoctrination Program) which means they'll starve and run you to death, before letting you go to Ranger school. <P>I was at Bragg in the 82nd(SSG,Aircraft Mechanic)and at that time the 82nd had 28 slots for each class at Ranger school and never did fill all of them!<P>Two schools I never attended that I wanted too were Jumpmaster and Ranger. I wish you the best! Keep us up to date on how things go! Hooah!<P>Mike

Army Infantry, reporting for duty, SIR!<P>Been there, done that.<P>In basic, I had a platoon mate that was 32. That was in 83. He was automatically named platoon leader because of his "Experience". He was a heavy drinker and everyone liked him. I think that's the key for an old fart...drink with the best of them.<P>As for Airborne...it is not so tough. The hardest part is making the first jump. They will psyche you as hard as they can to get you nervous. It really isn't that hard though. You jump, you pull the cord, you land on you 6 point and get up and pull your chute together. Then get back in line to do it again.<P>Ranger is tougher, but you'll have a hard time getting in at your age unless your are top notch physical condition. If you really want to add a challenge, go Delta School (you had to be a ranger to get in when I was there). You will enjoy ranger way more than jump school if you really want to challenge yourself.<P>Speaking of challenging yourself...have you considered Navy Seal? Now there's a test!<P>Nate

Justin, I hope you don't take this too personally but - ARE YOU NUTS?! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<P>I spent 4 years as an 11B also, had orders to go to Ranger school (same day I got orders to go to Germany), guess which one got preference? <P>As a young man with something to prove, and trying to get my head screwed on straight, the Army was a great thing for me. I was 19, tough as nails, and Vietnam was still going on. I had the world by the tail and wasn't letting go. The only guys I felt sorry for were the "older guys". <BR> We had a few guys in their late 20's and early 30's in our Platoon and it was most difficult on them. Pay very close attention to what Jim says about being treated like dirt by kids 10-12 years younger than you. This will not be a quality experience at your age, trust me.<P>As for being in good shape, liking to be in the outdoors, etc...- hogwash! This isn't a hunting/camping trip you are embarking on. If you are mature enough to have done what you say you've done, then accept the fact that your decision is a bit too late. I have several friends that still kick themselves for not enlisting, but they have learned to live with it the same as you will. At least at the time, we had buddies dying in Vietnam and the guilt of watching the caskets coming home was an impetus for wanting to do "our share". I'm not really sure what your reasoning is, but it doesn't sound like something you want to make a decision like this on. <BR>Besides, if you have graduated college, why wouldn't you go in as an officer?<BR>BTW, you can't get into Ranger school at your age- the cutoff is 28 as is Airborne school, Navy Seals, and most of the elite service groups. <BR>Hope this isn't too tough on you, but somebody has to wake you up from your dreamworld. This isn't something you do on a whim.- Sheister

I think you need to sober up. And, one final thought, if you really do intend to enlist, you better have a really good lawyer who is familiar with the process read those enlistment papers before you sign them, because once you do your butt belongs to Uncle and he may not have the same plans for it that you think he does. If you really enjoy being outdoors camping, cold and tired after packing for long distances, walk the Appalachian Trail in the winter time.

Hey Nate, What cord you been pulling after going to Airborne school? <P><BR>mike

Having been a 63W, I wanted to let the real 11B's answer first, even though we were always told "everybodys primary MOS is 11B. Even as a 3rd shop mechanic the army is no picnic. I was young and in much better shape, and still hated to run 6 miles every morning. <P>Don't get me wrong, I got some great memories, and made some lifelong friends in the army, but knowing what I'm getting into, NO-FREAKING-WAY would I do it again.<P>This aint something to take lightly. Once your names on the line, that's it. You are now government property. Alot of the time you'll be treated as such. You give up most of your rights when you enlist. These recruiters are very good at painting rosy pictures, but life aint like that. "To protect the constitution, you give up the rights granted by it." That aint my line, a buddy told me that, and it's true. Your a## can and will be sent wherever they damn well please.<P>On the up side, there are times when it was alot of fun, and, as I said, you'll make some lifelong friends. You'll be in good shape, and learn more than any college can teach you. I wouldn't trade the experience for a million bucks, but I wouldn't do it again for 10 million.<BR>7mmbuster

This is a great picture, just thought I would share it with y'all!<BR> [img]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1489643&a=11230369&p=48318774[/img]

ROR, great picture! We were at Fort Ord training to do just that when the word came down that the last man had been sent to 'Nam. Can't say I was relieved or not, they had us so damned wound up we would probably have taken on the Viet Cong with a switch!- Sheister

I hear You!! Sometimes I think I was Born too late(1970) I always have admired the Vietnam Vets the most.<P>Mike

Wow! I knew I'd get some info. here, but, you guys are overload! I think I only posted this about an hour ago.<P>First, let me say thank you very much to all of you. It's pretty tough to find guys who've "been there, done that" around here in Chicago. Not to many vets run in my circles--which is too bad.<P>A few things: I'm a little familiar with the culture gap having had kids working for me under the age of 25, and having little brothers and sisters who are 18-25. I've definitely thought about having the proverbial 19 year old sergeant screaming in my 34 year old face, and I just can't see that it would bother me that much. On the other hand, not being able to bond with my peers because of not being able to identify with them would be a disappointment.<P>Second, what's an 11B40?<P>Third, at least from the recruiters and what I've read, the situation as to age limits is as follows: you can enlist in the Army to the age of 35, you can go to OCS to the age of 28. As for Ranger school, there is no age limit, but you have to be recommended by your company commander to go unless you're already assigned to a Ranger Battalion. You must be less than 28 to become a SEAL as well, but I'm not really interested in that anyway.<P>Fourth, I guess I feel that I did miss out, but I'm not the type to just accept that I didn't get what I want. I figure that if it all is just really a terrible experience, it will only last three years and I'll be out. I'll be less than 40 years old, and I can always just come back out and start another business or start working. Since I'm not married and have no kids, I just don't see what I really have to lose.<P>Fifth, Jim, where are you from in Idaho? I grew up in Middleton and go back to ID to hunt and fish twice a year. Maybe we could hook up for a beer this fall? Generally one of my brothers comes along with me.<P>Sixth, thanks again to all of you for all of your input. I haven't really seen anything which would discourage me, and that's what I was looking for. If any of you have anything you forgot to add, please feel free to email me with it at jhamerbecaol.com or post it here.<P>Seventh, thanks to all of you for serving. Sincerely, Justin

P.S. ROR that <I>is</I>a great picture. I dunno, it just all looks like fun to me. Justin

Justin, <P> I hope I wasn't too harsh in my post but I feel you need to think hard on this. However, if you feel this is something you want to do and feel you can handle, then go for it! I won't disrespect any man who serves honorably for whatever reason, service to your country is the highest act of selflessness and honor. If you gain something from the experience, so much the better!- Sure you don't want to try the Marines? Hooah!- Sheister<P>Mike, I was asked to go to Helicopter Pilot school while in basic training. Obviously, they were getting short of pilots at the end there, wonder why? I quickly turned them down, always wondered if I did the right thing? Something I keep coming back to about that time-the last man went to Vietnam in December 1972 or January of 1973, (my memory isn't as good as it was), but the last man didn't come back until 1975! Excluding of course, MIA's, KIA's, and some POW's. Twenty eight years and I still think about it almost every day.

The services, at least the Army that I know of, used a numeric Military Occupational Skill designation, or MOS.<P>My MOS was 11 Bravo, Light Weapons, Infantry. Basically a Rifleman. I think 11C was a Mortarman.<P>The last two numbers designate rank, but I'm not real up on that. I started as a Private 11B10, and came out as an E5 Sergeant with an MOS of 11B40.<P>But don't be too impressed. I spent 2 1/2 years in the Berlin Brigade (McNair Kaserne for those familiary with the place) from mid '73 to early '75 and had a pretty peaceful time of it.<P>BTW, I live in Fruitland, about 25 miles west of Middleton. If you know you're going to be in the area post something on the board with my handle. I'll shoot you my email address and we can arrange to get together. <P>I've met several folks from this board and we've always had a good time, so I figure I can probably put up with some gung ho 34 year old punk kid. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]<P><BR>Update: Make that mid '72 to early '75. My biggest combat experience was fighting the crowds at the Deutschland Halle to get a good seat for the Stones concert.<P>As to the 40 designator, ROTR you may be correct, I'll have to go back and look at the ol' DD214. I think back then it went E1-E3 10, E4 20 and then skipped to 40 for NCO's. Been a long time though and I never really paid much attention to it so my memory could be mistaken.

Justin,<P>If you're mind is already made up (and only you can honestly answer that) then do it. If you're truly soliciting opinions from others, then let me offer this: don't do it.<P>I was not infantry. I was field artillery. However, my day to day life experiences were very much the same. I went to airborne school and also earned my German jumpwings by doing qualifying jumps in Germany. Those were highlights of three years of service.<P>The day to day stuff is what will drive a 34 year old man nuts. You stand around and waste time all the time. Hurry up and wait. You will be socially isolated beyond belief. I can't think of more than one guy in my entire battery (field artillery term for company) that was E4 or below and older than 25. He was 33 and had to spend his whole day with kids under 20 and just didn't fit. He had a 4-year degree and was a "normal" guy. But to have to spend the day with 18 and 19 year-olds was tough. They had nothing in common.<P>Another area where you'll suffer is that you won't feel any satisfaction for your work. Trooping around doing the grunt work isn't that rewarding. It would be different if you were in the field everyday. That might be cool. But, most of your workday will be spent mopping the CQ area, picking up trash, unloading trucks, maintaining your equipment, and taking classes that move at 1/8 the pace you can handle. Seriously, are you ready to sit in a room with 50 guys and spend 8 hours covering something you can learn in an hour?? Plus you have to ride in some overcrowded bus or cattle car to get to the class, have three formations to make sure everyone is there, and then double-time to chow 'cuz you got out late. (Don't even get me started about mess halls).<P>You might be thinking it would be fun to shoot an M16. Well, it is, but weapons qualification takes a day of prep and a full day at the range. In that time, you will likely fire your weapon 49 times. Three 3-shot groups to zero and a 40 round qualification. Now mix in more formations, a 15 minute safety briefing you've heard a zillion times, policing the range, cleaning your weapon, and more transportation nightmares and you won't think it's that great. You get back to your company area and you'll find the company armorer (the guy in charge of the arms room) is on a different bus. So you can't turn in your weapon. So you sit for another 40 minutes. Then when the guy with the keys shows up, the line is another 20 minutes. Finally, everything and everybody is accounted for. Another formation. Dismissed for chow.<P>The next day is annual drown-proofing. More formations, buses, and formations. You get to the pool and jump in. Get back out, get dressed more formations, buses, and formations. Lunch time. The afternoon is a thrilling class on squad patrols in preparation for tomorrow's exercise. Sounds good, not to mention worthwhile. Well it would be except only half the guys are paying attention and only half of them will get it right tomorrow. So the class will be a waste and you'll end up doing it again tomorrow. You will stand around bored while Jimmy Thompson from Coon Hollow, Kentucky gets one on one instruction on what to do.<P>In your off-hours, time will be your enemy. You won't have much time to meet and develop relationships with non-military people. You will live on base and if you're not careful, you'll spend too much time there. With army pay, you won't have money to do a lot of things you like to. <P>Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed my three years, but I was too old at age 21. I am 32 now and I shudder to think about doing it at this age. Do yourself a favor and don't join up.<P>My two cents. <P>Wade

Unless it's changed since 94' The numbers behind the MOS were: 10(E-1 thru E-4),20(E-5),30(E-6),40(E-7),50(E-8) First SGT's may get a different MOS all together and I'm almost certain Sergeant Majors did, although I don't know for sure. 11B was infantryman, 11C was Mortarman, 11M was Mechanized Infantry, 11H was a T.O.W. missile shooter if a paratrooper add a P at the end 11B20P(Infantryman,SGT,Paratrooper), if a Ranger add a V. 11B20V

P.S. not contradicting what was stated above, I know it used to be that way, but now it has changed.<P>Mike 67S3P

With your enthusiasm and desire, go, we will all chip in and pay your salary. When you discover,(about six months), how easy it would have been to hike, hunt, fish, backpack, when you wanted to where you wanted to, remember it's only for three or four years, MAYBE, always remember the saying, THE NEEDS OF THE SERVICE COME FIRST. You have no say about anything, even going to the latrine. Have fun. -- no

Justin why don't you try out the infantrynman's life before you make the big step? Do it this way. Go out in your back yard and dig a hole about chest deep and fill it with water. Now jump in the hole and sit there for about half a day. Get out and pick up a suit case that you have packed with seventy five pounds of rocks. Carrying the suit case try to slip up on your neighbors Rotwiller and poke him in the butt with out him detecting you. If he does detect you run back to your hole carrying your suit case and jump back in. It would help if you would hire a neighbor kid to shoot at you with a 22 while you run. You can do this in sub freezing weather without penalty. If the weather is warm you must smear honey on your head so all the insects in the universe have a fair chance at you as a quick lunch. Oh, by the way, before you do any of this you have to eat a half pound of ExLax.<BR>That about right guys?<BR>BCR