Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Union Guys educate me on something

HTB - that says more about the company than the union, IMO.

great bedtime story hammertime.... g'nite.....

Jeff - addressing you litany would take a whole 'nuther thread, I think. All I can say is that I don't see anybody around here going barefoot except by choice. A lot of what you posted is comparing apples to apple seeds, as it were. Money is not the issue, it's quality of life. The vast majority of quality of life issues that I see around me are brought on by thing people do to themselves.

But maybe you're in a real depressed area...

If it wasn't for union's everyboby would be workin for [bleep] wages. Period... Unions droVe the wages's up! Who do you think brought you the weekend? That's right.. If it weren't for unions folks would be workin 7 days a week!

If it were'nt for unions there would be fence outside of factorys and every morning the bosses would come out and point. They'd say i'll take you. And you. And you. And you. And you....................................................................................

The wages would be 1 dollar an hour. And then some little spineless [bleep] would whisper i'll do it for 50 cents an hour. And they'd let him through the gate.

Dose that mean I'd vote Demo?? Never!! I'll will slit the throat of anyone that trys to take my guns from me. TRY ME!! Blood will be shed on my porch.............

Yep, just take a big eraser and scrub out the annoying reality ... great rationalization. Funny that only the committed union members agree with that anti-logic.

Gringo, I don't know exactly what happened at that factory - but if it's anything like some of the stupid BS that is forced on us by management where I work, I can see how something like that could happen. Without all the facts from both sides, your story is just a story. I have seen management do and say things that would cause such a situation, and to an outsider it would look like the workers are stupid, lazy, or just malicious. In fact, I've been questioned by outsiders over such things because they have no idea.

Maybe those workers were absolutely wrong - or maybe they were doing exactly what they perceived was required of them by management. Without being there or knowing all the facts, neither of us really knows.

As far as my bias (I admit), it comes as a result of almost 30 years of dealing with management mentality in a large corporation. And I've been on both sides of that fence, BTW.

i really need to clarify something that seems to be misunderstood by everyone in America. they think all union members are like the U.A.W. not that there is anything wrong with the U.A.W. but i belong to the I.B.E.W. and there are hundreds if not thousands of other Unions in the United States and the world. sure there were problems once upon a time with organized crime and it was us workers who felt the biggest pinch from that, but if it was not for labor unions in this country everyones and i mean EVERYONES wages, salary, pay would be considerably less. that includes management folks who's incentives to be a manager were to be in charge and make more than their hourly employees and have better benefits. even if you are a non-union worker and are being paid less than your union counterparts how much do you think you would be making if the companies were not forced to be at least competitive with unionized workers to even get you to work for them. can you imagine the working conditions you would be working under.
something people don't realize is that union workers all have some type of health benefits and a retirement. if they did not, your insurance premiums would be higher. several non-union companies competing with us here in las vegas gave their employees the option of healthcare benefits and a retirement plan and the majority of their emloyees chose to get the money on their checks instead of having benefits. unions negotiate wage and benefit packages which keeps wages up and costs of premiums down for ALL Americans. someone has to pay for the healthcare of illegals. if everyone in America belonged to a labor union, everyone would have health care coverage. we pay considerable dues and provide excellent training for young people to learn many skilled professions. sure there are exceptions and freeloaders and loafers in every job making a bad name for the majority of good people who work hard to provide for their families, but it's just not in the union workforce, i've seen it first hand in the non-union sector alike. it's just politically correct to lump everyone in the same basket.
i think we would all be better served to hold our Wall Street executives feet to the fire and feel the outrage for the way they have tanked this country due to plain old greed and avarice. after all, they are the ones who are the guardians of our pensions, retirement accounts, and kids college funds.

Shag, if that's supposed to be parody...it sucked.

If it's for real, maybe you should keep it to yourself. you ain't helping any.

Jeff, I agree with most of your last post - although I don't think every job should be unionized.

What do you suppose this country would look like if the vast majority - laborers, managers, and stockholders - actually put some time and effort into seeing that things are done right.......instead of spending all their free time at the golf course or in front of the boob tube?

No doubt Unions have done great things for labor both worker and manager in the US. I don't think anyone can ever overlook the contributions of Unions is this country, however, just as much as things needed to be changed at the turn of the century things need to be changed now. Weekends aren't going away, 40 hour weeks aren't going away, Overtime is not going away, benefits are not going away.

The question I have is do you have to have a Union to insure those things stay? I really believe that if all the members of the IBEW decided they wanted to get an insurer to provide them with Health Insurance or manage a 401k, there would be plenty of insurers and financiers willing to provide those options. Are Union/Union Leadership really the best aggregators of those services?

FreeMe, I don't know the percentage of situations where the workers voted to go union but I'd say at least 80% of the time it's over working conditions and not wages.

Blow Me, I call it like I see it. Truth can sting. With the economy the way it is lots of companys will/are buying jobs. Can't survive doing that for to long.. Companys are going to have to do more with less.

That favors non unioun outfits. They will pay less skilled people piss wages. Gonna make it tough for everyone. That also won't last a real long time because the finished product will reflect the skill and wages of the craftsman. Resulting in law suits that will fold companys.

Unious have been fighting for workers rights for many many years.. Restructured Contracts happen alot more often than most realize. In fact right now Carpenters and Millwrights in a couple nortwest states are looking into solutions in a contract modifications as a direct result of the piss poor economy.(trying to help)

Imigrants coming to America are willing to work for piss wages. that hurts more than anything. I know of one local union company that is prolly gonna drop from the union. I know the owner well. He's claiming the wages are killing his company. Like I said I know him well and thats BS! The economy is killing his company which prospered just fine until the collapse. Even then he couldn't get enough coin in his pocket always trying to find ways to screw the guys that make him all his money. He dosen't give a piss about anyone but himself. Screw the worker.

Blow Me, Your more than welcome not to read what I type. And be glad some 50 cent little rat dosen't have your job right now. Yea, you can thank Union workers for that too.

how about this time around, that because of executive greed and waste on gold shower curtains and Ponzi schemes and corporate jets and his and hers helicopters etc. that THEY take it in the shorts for a change and make some concessions.
really, how much money is enough????!!!! there is something wrong when the salary for President of the United States of America is less than half a million dollars and most CEO'S, CFO'S, etc. are making tens of millions of dollars a year + perks. that doesn't even begin to address these GOLDEN PARACHUTES. the oil companies have made historical quarterly profits for the last four or five years. that's quarterly profits that are higher than any companies ever made in a YEAR in the entire history of the WORLD! we are all arguing about union and non-union wages and benefits and these guys don't even care how much a gallon of gas or diesel is. poor Warren Buffett lost 33 BILLION dollars last year and the poor guy only has 36 BILLION left. i'll bet that sure puts a crimp in his lifestyle. unlike Bill Gates he has never created anything other than another investment firm - Berkshire Hathaway -. have you checked the price lately of a share of the stock. it's down from $147,000.00 dollars a share to $88,000.00 dollars a share. guess i won't be buying too many shares. these guys are all way beyond our league. i'm telling you it's an all out assault on the little guys of the world. the poor get poorer, the filthy rich get filthier and the middle class DISAPPEARS!!!

warren buffett is an interesting guy to contemplate. i don't know if he's personally produced any great designs or inventions, but it's hard to call him out on his investment strategies... as i understand it he built the core of his wealth on bonds returns... that's about as conservative as a guy can get, financially...

i know that today, he is the principal owner of Mid American Energy. i've worked for several contractors at many of the Mid American facilities, a lot, or maybe all of which are in iowa, where the firm is headquartered. being that iowa is a "right to work" state, many non union companies have a large presence there...
Mid American uses all union labor for all outage and new construction work, as far as i know... in fact many of their mid and upper level management are members of the boilermakers union....

Greed is the problem more than anything else. The Illeals and the greedy folks that hire and/or allow them to be used are killing jobs. Is it ok to save $5k by the contractor using illegals to roof and dry wall a new home? Me, I'd rather pay the extra and be honest, in fact if it was a problem here I would have had it stated in the contract "no illegals". They work for less than minium wage and there are no taxes, injury comp., or unemployment to have to deal with. They demand their "rights" and our govenment tends to give them what they demand. Is the answer working for less than the illegals for scraps? We have to compete don't we?

This is one of the dumbest responses I've ever seen on any site.Benefits are'nt going away? If you dont have a union job you most likely dont have any real benefits.Talk to me when your weekends are gone too and you are working them for straight time.

Seen many 401K's lately? I'll take the pension.

I'll take the pension.

+1

a little Union solidarity is what brought Poland back into the fold and was the start of the downfall of the U.S.S.R. Lech Walensa is in my opinion one of modern history's greatest heroes. if folks here in the US could show that kind of solidarity there is nothing that we could not accomplish!

Doesn't look like you read this whole thread, Shag. I mostly have agreed with what you are saying, but was only commenting on your rudeness. Just the kind of thing that we union members are often stereotyped with. Thanks for your input.