Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Why I like BLUE DOT

I've never had such great accuracy for so little money
This is from a factory Savage 12...

Nice! Sure gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling when you see that in a spotting scope.

I'll brace for this.. as I know someone will come along in the near future, curse me and my family's existence, for ever introducing the concept of blue dot in rifles on the forums here...

'since I did it just to be able to see people go out and kill themselves' as will be claimed...

but nice shooting by the way, eh?

in the 22.250 a friend tried my own personal used load of 18.5 grains of Blue Dot with a 55 grain bulk SP.... he came home with his pants on fire he was so happy with the groups that load gave him at 100, 200 and 250 yds...in his new Howa 22.250...

So how fast is blue dot pushing these?

I'm going to SWAG 3000ish fps.

The chrony reads right around 3300fps plus or minus 10 with this load.

Damn.............

That'd be REALLY hard not to like.

Really.....
So, you can push a 40gr. at 3300 fps, useing 17gr. of Blue dot.. Thats dangd there shooting for pennies////

Hard not to like that...

Yeah, like I said, I'm pretty happy with it

You should see what it does to gophers...

This load is producing the best accuracy this gun has ever given me, and I've tried a lot of loads. Several of the loads I've worked up will give me 0.4-0.5" 3-shot groups, but nothing this good.

Any other cool penny loads like this?

Yup, .22-250 with 55gr SPSX and 15gr BD is giving 0.6" for 5 shots out of the same Savage (2610fps), 16gr of BD with a .243 75gr Horn is giving 0.4" groups (3 shots) in my friends Sako AII 22" barrel (roughly 2500fps avg), and 18gr of BD is turning in 0.5" groups for 5 shots out of my Tikka T3 in .25-06 with the 75gr Horn HP (2360fps avg). I'm currently working on a load out of the .25-06 using the 60gr Horn FP. I'll report back when I'm finished. Blue dot, in general, has been producing pretty impressive accuracy for me. So far I've gotten 2660fps with 19gr of BD...

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I worked up a load for my buddy's Ruger MkII in .338 Win. Mag. using the Horn 200gr FP and, IIRC, 25gr of BD. This is going 1610fps, but is giving 1-hole accuracy, easily 0.4" for 3 shots.

Going to need another pound of Blue now...

Cool, keep it up..

THanks...

For inquiring minds:

re: 22.250

Blue Dot Range Report: 22/250

Firearm Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2

Barrel: 22 inch sporter weight

Case: Remington

Range Tested: 7 grains to 20 grains. 20 % ( 6.6 grains) 60 % ( 19.8 grains)

Full Case Capacity to Rim: 33 grains/

Bullets Used in Test:
46 Win HP, 50 Hornady SP, 52 Sierra HP Match, 55 Win FMJ, 60 Hornady SP
63 Sierra SMP


Test Results:

I. 46 grain Winchester Hollow Point, Win Large Pistol Primer

1. 7 grs: 1721 fps
2. 8 grs: 1895 fps
3. 9 grs: 2095 fps
4. 10 grs: 2264 fps
5. 11 grs: 2390 fps

6. 12 grs: 2537 fps
7. 13 grs: 2675 fps
8. 14 grs: 2781 fps
9. 15 grs: NO Reading
10. 16 grs: 3063 fps

11. 17 grs: 3177 fps
12. 18 grs: 3274 fps
13. 19 grs: 3388 fps ( Consider Max)
14. 20 grs: 3440 fps ( Extractor Mark, Scrapped Case)

II. 50 grain Hornady SP, Win Large Rifle Primer

1. 7 grs: 1722 fps
2. 8 grs: 1911 fps
3. 9 grs: 2057 fps
4. 10 grs: 2206 fps
5. 11 grs: 2328 fps

6. 12 grs: 2473 fps
7. 13 grs: 2627 fps
8. 14 grs: 2729 fps
9. 15 grs: 2856 fps
10. 16 grs: 2940 fps

11. 17 grs: 3116 fps
12. 18 grs: 3181 fps
13. 19 grs: 3271 fps
14. 20 grs: 3354 fps

With this bullet, all the way to 20 grains was reached ( 60%). However, I would recommend max being set at 19 grains or less.


III Sierra 52 grain Hollow Point Match Win Large Pistol Primer

1. 7 grs: 1676 fps
2. 8 grs: 1841 fps
3. 9 grs: 1998 fps
4. 10 grs: 2127 fps
5. 11 grs: 2311 fps

6. 12 grs: 2416 fps
7. 13 grs: 2551 fps
8. 14 grs: No Read
9. 15 grs: 2795 fps
10. 16 grs: 2935 fps

11. 17 grs: 3029 fps
12. 18 grs: 3127 fps
13. 19 grs: 3252 fps
14. 20 grs: 3297 fps

This bullet also reached the 20 grains mark ( 60 %) . However once again I recommend max being set at 19 grains or less.


IV Winchester 55 gr FMJ, Win Large Pistol Primer

1. 7grs: 1636 fps
2. 8 grs: 1800 fps
3. 9 grs: 1986 fps
4. 10 grs: 2126 fps
5. 11 grs: 2247 fps

6. 12 grs: 2392 fps
7. 13 grs: 2504 fps
8. 14 grs: 2631 fps
9. 15 grs: 2738 fps
10. 16 grs: 2872 fps

11. 17 grs: 3003 fps
12. 18 grs: 3095 fps
13. 19 grs: 3203 fps
14. 20 grs: 3250 fps

As again Noted, this bullet also achieved reaching the 20 grain Mark ( 60%). However once again I recommend max capacity at 19 grains or less.


V. Hornady 60 grain SP, Win Mag Rifle Primer

1. 7 grs: 1587 fps
2. 8 grs: 1769 fps
3. 9 grs: 1901 fps
4. 10 grs: 2034 fps
5. 11 grs: 2162 fps

6. 12 grs: 2290 fps
7. 13 grs: 2406 fps
8. 14 grs: 2489 fps
9. 15 grs: 2618 fps
10. 16 grs: 2735 fps

11. 17 grs: 2832 fps
12. 18 grs: 2832 fps
13. 19 grs: 3058 fps ( considered max)
14. 20 grs: 3119 fps ( primer leaked, extractor marks, scrapped case)

Max was achieved at 19 grains. Recommend Max load at 19 grains or less.
Based on tree used as back stop, which had a 6 inch diameter to it, bullets at 15 grains of powder and up were penetrating the tree completely. Based on this I would recommend this point as a potential deer load for youths, keeping range within 100 to 125 yds or so ( 30/30 range). The 63 grain Sierra SMP showed a lot more damage to the tree than did the Hornady, and at a much lower velocity. Use on deer is the personal choice of the shooter or adult. Some argue against 22 Center fire on deer and others are just fine with it. Key is shot placement and range limitation. I am just reporting damage to media, and penetration that I am passing on to the reader.



VI. Sierra 63 grain Semi Pointed ( SMP) Win Mag Rifle Primer

1. 7 grs: 1455 fps
2. 8 grs: 1607 fps
3. 9 grs: 1848 fps
4. 10 grs: 1860 fps
5. 11 grs: 2034 fps

6. 12 grs: 2176 fps
7. 13 grs: 2327 fps
8. 14 grs: 2443 fps
9. 15 grs: 2578 fps
10. 16 grs: 2668 fps

11. 17 grs: 2787 fps
12. 18 grs: 2850 fps
13. 19 grs: 2958 fps ( Consider Maximum!, NO problems observed)
14. 20 grs: 2982 fps ( Popped primer, jammed bolt)


Conclusions:

For training and starting out a youth, I consider the 22/250 a better first choice to start out with, based on the test results as compared to a 223. The 223 has the economy of cheaper brass, but the 22/250 I thought offered more flexibility by being able to achieve higher velocities with heavier bullets than the 223 achieves.

For training of youths to deer hunt, the 63 grain bullet offered a lot of promise of everything tested. Results for a 64 grain Winchester would be close to the same, just recommend working up. Start looking for max with 18 grains or so. As one can see, the increase in fps is not that much, and would make no real world difference, as I consider that 200 yds would be max range. I also feel that training a youth not to take shots over that distance is a responsible habit for an adult to teach younger shooters. Let them learn with experience and practice to learn to shoot at longer ranges.

The 22/250 can be loaded down to levels that are between a 22 Long Rifle and a 22 Mag.
The recoil is very low, but also so is the noise at these levels. Especially the 10 grain loads and under. It can also be enjoyable for an adult. My own 22 mags are going to get dusty, as these loads are not only cheaper to shoot, but are more accurate� plus one can have a bullet of his choice instead of what the factory picks to load. At the lower volumes, such as 7 grains and up, these can also make a very satisfactory load for Squirrel hunting, or similar sized game at appropriate ranges. Consult a trajectory chart in some of the commercially available reload manuals. Even at 2000 fps or under, these would make good loads for calling coyotes if you can bring them in at 100 yds or so.
Game bullets would have the punch to drop a coyote at those velocities.

Important Notes:

These loads were tested in cool weather, moist outside and around the 55 to 60 degree ranges. Work up if the higher loads near max are to be used in hot weather.

Bullets were seated out to the magazine length in the Ruger. If your rifle has a tight neck, or a shorter chamber ( Rugers are generous) then work up your loads. Also seating bullets deeper can increase pressures.

Remember Blue Dot is a faster powder. However no filler is needed and I have tested it down to just 10 % of load capacity ( 3.3 grains and it worked just fine). It is not powder position sensitive in the case either.

This data represents data that I have observed. It is shared as a point of reference.
Outcomes are the responsibility of each handloader, who should be careful in his work.

The 22/250 showed me a lot of flexibility here, moreso than the 223 even.
It would be my pick as a better choice for a first rifle for a youth, utilizing this gathered test data.

Cheers and Good shooting

Thank you for sharing, great info. Printing it off now...

Now who has bullets?

Jordan Smith: I just came from the Alliant Powder Companies online site and they DO NOT recommend the use of Blue Dot powder in the 22-250 Remington!
Nor does ANY of the several loading manuals I have in my library!
I shoot several Rifles in caliber 22-250 Remington and I would not even consider using Blue Dot powder nor any kind of "squib load" in any of them!
I did some "figgerin" and I average 212 22-250 reloads per pound of powder in my safe and recommended loads. With your unsafe and unrecommended load you are getting 411 reloads.
Is it worth risking life, limbs, eyes, guns and the safety of other to "save" a few pennies on EVERY shot you take with these "squib loads"?
Its certainly NOT, to me!
Just do a google search for blown up Rifles / squib loads.
I would ALSO be VERY, VERY wary of following the recommendations of someone who is obviously intent on "martyring" themselves as evidenced by the following quote: "I'll brace for this.. as I know someone will come along in the near future, curse me and my family's existence, for ever introducing the concept of blue dot in rifles on the forums here...
'since I did it just to be able to see people go out and kill themselves' as will be claimed..." - end quote!

I, for one, "claim" and wish harm would come to NO reloader.

And a wonderful way for that to be accomplished is to stick with recommended loads!
The Alliant Powder Company DOES RECOMMEND using their 10X powder and RE 15 in the 22-250 Remington with 40 grain bullets.
I shoot 5 shot groups at 100 yards for all my testing and I get excellent accuracy (comparable to your unsafe and unrecommended loads) with my 22-250 Rifles and my recommended and safe loads!
I will gladly use my safe and recommended loads and pay the extra pennies per shot and not have to worry at every shot for my Rifle to detonate (explode!)!
Stick with factory recommended and safe loading procedures and recipes!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

There is a very good reason why Blue Dot is not recommended by it's maker for such applications.
It's designed as a shotgun powder. That means each lot is not tested for stability at pressures over 20,000 psi. Oh, sure. Lots of it have been used with alot more pressure and there have been no problems with those lots, sometimes. The trouble is that there have been problems, every once in a while with such powders when used at really high pressures.
There are plenty of powders tested at rifle class pressures that will do just as well. Try Dupont's SR 4759, up to 22 grs. with a 55 gr. bullet for 3100 fps. or IMR 4227 at 21.5 grs. for 3030 fps. Or you can use IMR 4198, 27.5 grs. for 3375 fps.
All of these are maximum loads, so start low. All of them will produce much less recoil and muzzle blast.
You can, and I have, simply reduce the faster rifle powders from their stated minimums if they are stick powders. With magnum rifle primers, they shoot quite well. IMR or H4895 are big favorites for this. 4895 can be reduced to as little as 1/3 it's maximum for pretty good results. I've used 60% charges of IMR 3031 w/ magnum primers and gotten .6 MOA accuracy in my .280.
Just don't do this with 4350 or anything slower. E

Maybe:

4895 can be reduced to as little as 2/3 it's maximum for pretty good results

Two fellas that have used and try something, and prove that it works, being heckled by two that refuse to try because they "know" better.

Well, at least one of them isn't trying to convince someone to focus a scope (at least, right now).

Very low report, very little muzzle blast, very inexpensive, very little recoil, very effective. What's not to like?

And did I mention, very accurate!

And don't give me the "dangerous" thing, you should be very careful and meticulous with any sort of reloading procedure, regardless of the powder being used!

VG,
I do appreciate your concern, BTW, but I will continue to use BD because I like it. It's just like when grown men decide to ride a motorcycle instead of driving a car, even though they are fully aware that the motorbike is much riskier. So why do they ride the bike? Because they like to! It's the same reason I use BD...

Jordan;

FWIW, (and yes, I know QuickLoad isn't deadnuts accurate, but it's closer than a WAG), your load is well within pressure max for the .22-250.

So has anyone tried BD in the .22 Hornet or the .221 Fireball? What were your results? Seems like the hornet would be ideal for Blue Dot.

Not yet....... but I'm siding closer to Unique in the Hornet, due to the VERY small capacity.

Now, the Fireball is a different critter.........

PM Rocky Raab on the Hornet and Blue Dot... he has used it for years evidently...

I can extropolate charges that would work in the fireball case, but in doing so, I know I'll really get flamed by the naythsayers...

Blue Dot is a pretty consistent and predictable powder..

a couple of examples are;

in a 308 sized case, regardless of bullet weights used or regardless of caliber, 22 grains of Blue Dot is the maximum amount before you start popping primers...

in a 6.5 x 55 case or a 57 mm case, such as the 7 x 57, 6mm Rem, 257 Roberts, 8 x 57 Mauser.. 24 grains of Blue Dot is max, regardless of caliber or bullet weight...

blue dot prefers shorter fatter cases...
it really likes Rem BR cases or PPC cases, or the Winchester Short mags and Super Short Mag cases.....

naturally since it is considered a pistol and shotgun powder, it also performs well in any straight walled case, like a 444, or 45/70 style case...375 Win, 38/55 etc..

now let me go put on my flame suit, army helmet....and get ready for the incoming rounds...

Kinda what I thought, hence the question about the Hornet with its gently tapered case. The Fireball may be a different animal.

I wouldn't EVEN try to talk anyone into or out of being what people are. All that does is cause them to burrow in deeper, just like a tick.

I also never thought chump changing was the really ecomonic way to go.

People who do things like using Blue Dot in small quantities in a case the size of a 22-250 are accidents waiting to happen.

I used to use the "standard" 2.7 gr of Bullseye with a 148 gr wadcutter in a 38 special case for practice...UNTIL I saw pistol come apart from a double charge. I switched to Unique, my scores stayed the same, it cost me a few more pennies, but I didn't have to think about the consequences of a double load, the powder would spill out, or having a brain fart and double loading, or getting distracted and underloading one and double loading the next, then Lady Luck going to sleep or Murphy giving me a pat on the butt when loading them for a rapid fire event.

Posting accidents or a different opinion just makes the machomen menalities get woody's and want to spitfire all the more.

I don't see where loading a 22-250 to the same velocity as a 223 and then bragging about saving money is de rigueur...seems a bit wrong-headed, or wrong thinking to me, not that economy isn't a good thing in this day and age. I get more velo out of ALL my 223's using a 40 gr bullet, ANY brand/ And the correct load of Varget gives me similar or better accuracy than Seafire is getting with his "ecomonical" load of BD. 40 gr V-max, Sierra and Noslers are my bullets of choice for my 223's and 55-65 in my 22-243. Pretty much standard for those two cartridges for the past 40 odd years, AND ALMOST maxed out...what the He** is a squib load good for except punching paper or short range, anyway????

I have nothing against using BD for the correct applications, I use it all the time. AND, use it as a starter powder for some loads in my 12GaFH.(not a good practice for novices) and for slug loads in my 3.5" chambered shotguns. But SR4759 or 4227 is are better powders, have more bulk, fill the cases better, less fillers required, etc.

Ibindoondis reloading thing a long time, seen and done some very stoopid things. This internet brings out ALL the questionable activities and thoughts of all those who "gotnutton" better to do than look at a monitor and punch a keyboard.

And in spreading manure all over the place there's a very good chance of causing damage somewhere along the line to someone or something.

The need to "strut like a peacock" is overwelming in humanity, but the population needs thinning out so I wish everyone all the rope they need to achieve their destiny.

I'm constantly surprised just how consistent it really is. I see ES's of 1-5fps over my chrony, depending on the load. That's pretty incredible!

Not interested in saving a few pennies, but I am interested in potential increases in accuracy. I do not load my Hornets to max velocities 'cause that is not what they were / are intended for.

But very fast powders have always performed best in all of my Hornets.

Amazing that the guy building a 12gaFH shoulder-fired artillery piece (and documenting it in a thread now HOW long?) is commenting on perceiving someone else to be "strutting like a peacock"......

The warning not to use shotgun powders because some lots may or may not be stable at rifle pressures comes from the makers of those powders.
I understand the powder companies issued the warning because others have used it and had bad results, meaning that the loads detonated..., so be my guest and use what you want. E

Hold on. Having "bad results" does not automatically mean something detonated. There are dozens of other things that might cause somebody to claim "bad results".

Use what you choose is good advice. It includes the sentiment that if you do NOT choose, but somebody else does, just zip your lip and let him be.

Reloading can be dangerous. If you choose the wrong powder by accident, you can blow up a gun. If you use the wrong amount of the correct powder, you can blow up a gun. But if you use the right amount of the powder you intend to use, you will be fine - barring some other type of idiocy. And if you are careless enough to make mistakes like using the wrong powder or double charging, perhaps you should rethink this whole reloading hobby altogether.

I am very curious what you were using when this occurred...

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2067095

wasn't me who loaded it, just brought it to the forum floor...
so since I didn't load it, answers are speculation and pure academic...

in 5 years of doing this, this forum member brought this to my attention and one other guy admitted to not paying attention and double charging the case....

after starting to load some pistol rounds, it came clearly to me that they require a lot more attention to what you are doing than loading any powder in a rifle case....

folks want things to be made idiot proof...
if ya want something idiot proof, don't let an idiot do it...

naythe sayers come on here and knock it and then admit they never even load something with it, because they have read and know better...

that's akin to telling someone not to drive in LA traffic, but they have never been to LA.. they are just reciting what they read in a magazine or something...

my hands on experience and the hands on experience of a lot of other guys, differ from what you naythsayers are talking about reflecting what you have read.. or the factory's lack of published data....

yet the same factory publishes data on rifle cartridges using faster powders, such as Unique, Red Dot and Green Dot, plus 2400 which has a close burn rate...

and as far as the 221 fireball, in their load data published back in the 80s, blue dot was actually factory published for that round and the 22 Hornet.. I don't have it on hand, but have seen it in print...

factorys don't recommend using powders that they haven't necessarily tested, because they don't want the liability of some lawyer coming at them saying my client screwed up and you didn't warn him well enough...

whoever had that happened, overcharged the case is what every gun smith has told me that looked at those pictures of that case...back to load technique and operator error...not the powders fault...

There is data using 296, h110, 2400, lilgun, etc. All in same column as Blue dot used in the hornet, just looked it up in one of my books. Also, Fireball uses 2400, lillgun, and H110 etc. to..

So how far away is the fire ball capacity to a 22-250?

Rocky;

Stop making sense.

Seafire;

Stop using facts.

Seriously, folks want to get their panties in a twist over this one........

Too bad for them....hey Seafire, you gonna be doing some load testing on BD and the .308?
I have one waiting for the results.

Since when is a .224 bullet clocking 3300fps considered a squib load??

in the process of that and the 7/08 at the moment...

weather here has been a little wet, and some car repairs have diverted my attention to it.. but I have a bunch loaded up already... just need to get out and do some trigger pulling...

have results on the 110 grain and 125 grainers already...

still waiting to do the 150s, or 155s, the 168 and the 170s...

Actually, I am running about 10.7 grains of BD in my Furball under 40 BKs and liking that. The same rifle works pretty good with Lil Gun, too.
A caveat, I nearly blew myself up using Blue Dot because I was IGNORANT of the now-accepted 60 percent capacity headwall. And you need to be careful charging. I THINK I have accidentally double-or-stack-loaded once in my 223 gopher loads, I had one mystery case that showed some belting and won't take a primer any more.
As for the 22BR, I'm running 14.4 of BD, again under 40 grainers and it shoots excellent.

The 60 % headwall capacity applies to some cases and the taller they are ( say 06 vs 308) I recommend 50% capacity to the headwall...

key is don't start at the top load recommendation on any powder.. work up...

all Blue Dot data I have ever posted, I have gone beyond what I list as maximum... I noticed lose primers beyond that or no appreciable increase in velocity...

for 06 sized cases and Magnums, I have started to use SR 4759, especially after someone blew a mag case by double priming it...

but still... just proves folks have to pay attention to what they are doing...regardless of type of powder..

I think those who worry about "shotgun powders" fail to realize that often the companies who make them actually recommend these "shotgun powders" as pistol/revolver powders as well. And that, of course, places some of them at much higher pressures than what shotguns typically run. Seems to me that handgun loads ought to be wringing out whatever high pressure anomalies may exist. And for those who haven't seen some of the quicker powders published by reputable sources, I suggest looking into the volumes which Lyman has printed for years. Unique, Blue Dot, and several other "flaky shotgun" powders have been used over the years. Granted, more of them will be found in the cast bullet sections and volumes, but they have still been used and well tested.

There have been two things which have proven safe and useful to me over the years as far as loading technique is concerned. First, when loading revolver ammo with quick powders that could be double or triple charged, it is a very simple detail to place 50 powder-ready cases in a loading block and run them under the measure. (That really makes measure technique be uniform for the batch when done like that too.) But when each has been charged, simply looking into each case to see the powder depths relative to each other is a simple way to ensure that nothing is out of spec.) The second detail involves small charges in bottle necked cases. The loading block technique might also be used with a strong light after to compare all. However, I prefer to seat a bullet after each case is charged as it is more difficult to see a small charge in the depths of a bottle necked case. For this reason I prefer to weight each charge, dump it, and then seat the bullet in the charged case. The simple safety check on this is to shake each case after all have been loaded. One can easily detect a significant difference in the sound if all should have been the same.

I've used this for a number of years in big game rifle cases.

I'm going to be trying it in my new 221 Fireball here pretty soon.

I can really like 1,000 case charges per pound!!! [even tho I paid something like $32/lb locally]

$0.032 per reload is the cheapest component on this one!

The term "bad results" is my term. Not the term of the makers advising against the use of the powder. They advised against this practice because they learned of cases were some loads at rifle pressures detonated.
Now if we really want to encourage safe practices with Blue Dot, I would suggest someone contact the maker and see if it is now is tested at rifle pressures.
As far as my keeping silent when I think a fellow shooter and reloader is taking an unnecessary risk, that is not going to happen. E

On loading blocks, I'm too much of a klutz to use the whole block. I usually just lay them around the perimeter and charge 26 at a time, too hard to reach the center, and too easy to get "lost." Breaks up the monotony, too.

If you really want to be double safe, you can weigh each loaded cartridge once you're finished a batch of BD loads, and make sure that they are all within a couple of grains of each other. If one cartridge is 17gr more than the others, you know why. Different brands of brass have different weights, so compare cartridge weights against other loads in the batch using like brass.

The above is the purest kind of applesauce. Alliant themselves recommend Blue Dot for loads producing much more than 20,000 psi. Back when Hercules actually published the pressures for their loads, BlueDot loads produced up to 37,200 psi in the .44 Magnum, nearly twice the maximum 'safe pressure' - if you believe the quote above. Speer, Sierra and Lyman currently recommend BD for max pressure loads in the .44 Mag, .45 Mag, etc. Lyman #48 lists BD loads to over 38,000 CUP. Freedom Arms publishes BD load data for their .454 Casull up to 53,700 psi.

No one forces me to use BlueDot in my rifles and handguns. I do so informed and with my eyes open. I appreciate the concern with safety that some posters voice, but making up reasons not to use the powder helps no one.

From Alliant's site: BLUEDOT - Smokeless magnum shotshell & handgun

.
Edited for typo

I tried bluedot in my 22-250 with good results. No visible evidence of pressure problems and accuracy was as good or better than a couple, H-380 and Rel-15, of other powder choices. I will admit a little apprehension before the first Bluedot load fired, but I won't hesitate to load some more. I fill one case at a time with powder then seat a bullet. I don't see why it's a problem as long as you focus on loading the cases without distractions.
55 grain Sierra spitzer flat base bullets, 18.5 grains Bluedot, CCI BR2 primers = 3/4" 3 shot group with a Rem. 700 sporter barrel. Work up your loads like any other powder.

All right. I'll stand corrected. Alliant does list Blue dot for magnum handgun rds. Both the .44 Magnum, maximum pressure 36,000 psi and the 10mm, maximum pressure of 37,500 psi are listed on their site. But there are no high pressure rifle loads listed. E

I like Blue Dot loads beacause they are easy on the shooter with superb accuracy. And I have shot a lot of them.

Reguardless of the powder I am using for reloading whatever cartridge, I use a cast in stone proceedure. I have some old Herters plastic reloading trays in red and white. If I am loading on a single stage I have the primed cases in the white tray on my right side. I pick them up one case at a time, dump the powder and place it in the red tray on my left. After the red tray is full I take a pen light and shine in every case to check that all cases have powder and all are of equal level. Then I pick them up and seat the bullet and place them back in the white tray.

If I am loading on my Dillon I have a light rigged up shinning into the charged case so that I can visually check the powder level in every one. I beleive its better to go a little slower to do ones best to avoid a mishap.

BTW, for "inquiring minds." I just happen to have some older pressure test data for the .22-250. Using IMR 4227, which on the burn rate chart I have is rated no. 71, whereas Blue dot is rated at no. 56, that means it's quite a bit faster, IMR 4227 is listed at 21.5 grs. and 3140 fps. with a 50 gr. bullet. The pressure with this load is 49300 cup.
For the 55 gr. bullet, it listed at 21.5 grs., 3030 fps. and 52300 cup.
BTW, AA#9, no. 59, Alliant 2400, no. 63, Hodgdon Lil Gun, no. no. 65, Hodgen H110, no. 67, and IMR 4759, no. 69 are all slower rifle type powders. E

The ONLY fly in the ointment with Blue Dot is that it does not meter like the spherical powders I like so well.

BD in the 222, 30-30, 338 Mag, 30-06, 7.7X58, and 44 Mag have made me very happy

I used BD for awhile in my 44mag. Some cans seemed pretty good and others seemed not to good. Finally gave up on it.

Has anyone tried this in a 204 ruger?

yeah, but the naythsayers freak when it is used, especially in calibers smaller than 22.. then they really think we are going to blow up guns and kill everyone at the range that day when it does...

I like Blue Dot, and I appreciate the information presented in this thread. I have been reloading for decades, and have never blown up a gun despite my regular use of such powders as 2400, AL-8, Red Dot, PB and even Bullseye in rifle cartridges. So the dire warnings from those who run around braying at the top of their lungs and using exclamation points in every sentence because someone does something without the express permission of the "authorities" are, to me, a few notches below the spam that appears in my email inbox every day.

Seafire and others who are not afraid to experiment, thanks for what you do and for sharing what you learn with the rest of us.

If anyone has any experience with AL-8, I would be interested in hearing about it, because I have about 15 lbs of it and would like to expand the applications I use it in.

TTT

ddurst

You think 22-250 is apprehension . . .

Imagine how I felt pulling the trigger on the first 338 Mag?

Know what, it is just like anything else Seafire has recommended.

Great

I use it in a lot of different cases and one can sure match ballistics of the reduced recoil 30-06 round with a load of BD.

Have you ever heard of the term "sarcasm"?

Saddly you are wasting your time. A few posters here just can't let it go, they insist that if you don't agree with them you are an idiot or worse. But based on the ratio of pros versus cons in this thread, it is they who are the true "martyrs"...



.

Bump for the info

vs,

I loaded up some BlueDot loads yesterday for my .204

10.0 grains BD, 32 gr. Vmax, Win. SR primers.

Aprox. 2700 FPS

Got a 5 shot group at 30 yards, all cutting the same hole.

Works for me!

Virgil B.

I have to ask why you test at 30 yds as almost any load should cut one hole at that distance. I am interested in the BD loads in 20 cal as I intend to try them in my 20 VarTarg but unless they were workable to 200yds they would not be worth the trial. Have great 4198 - 35gn Berger loads that have been effective to 350yds (so far) but a close range load to 200 is the aim with the BD.

Von Gruff.

I wouldn't call Blue Dot loads particularly close range.
They scoot pretty good.
I would suspect, however, that in a sorta-overbore case like the 204, you will need to be extra smart in your workup. The idea in my book is to kick little bullets in the fanny with BD, not big bullets. If you are doing 32s, BD should be tractable, but if you want 35s and up, you are better off with something like 4198 or even slower rifle powders in the 4895/Varget range.

I have followed seafires post for a few days and reading things over.
I just found this site 3 days ago searching for 223 blue dot loads and just signed up.looks like a nice place.
I am going to give the 223 and 204 loads a try.
I have been loading for 20 years and burned a ton of blue dot in 44mag and 357 mag,but not rifle this looks good.
anyone use bluedot in 6mm remington,I am working on a 6mm rem ackley imp on a 1918 springfield right now.

So here's where I'm at. I live in SouthWest Idaho and mostly shoot ground squirrels. They are a small target and a low recoiling round is preferable, if you hunt by yourself, which I mostly do. I use primarily a 221 fireball w/ 40 grain bullets, or a 223 w/ 40 grain bullets. These are are medium-heavy varmint rifles (Rem 700 VLS and Cooper). Anyway, I have a 22-250 Tikka continental Varminter that hardly gets shot because of the recoil jump factor with 55 gr bullets at full power. It is my long range rock chuck rig, but I would like to shoot the rifle more because, well, I like the rifle, and rock chucks are few and far between. So, I am going to load up some of Jordan Smiths Blue dot loads in an attempt to turn my 22-250 into more of 221/223...May not make sense to some, but I'd like to enjoy all the rifles I have, as often as I can.

Tom,

I load 22.250s up to that velocity as well depending on what I am out shooting... I even do it going to the range at times..

Most of the guys who always knock using these loads, will admit to never trying them, if they are honest..

Cast bullet manuals have data with a ton of powders much faster than Blue Dot, to include the 22.250...

I figure guys who knock it, because the data 'didn't come from the factory' are just a by product of our sue happy world, and lawyers sticking their nose in the shooting industry and world..

my usual loads for Blue Dot in the 22.250 range from 12 grains on the low end, to 18.5 on the high end... 19.5 is actually maximum.. but 18.5 makes a 223 out of it..

if you don't mind the expense of 30 grain Berger HPs or Calhoon's 30 grain HP...working up a load in the 22.250 with those ( especially the Berger) you can get a very fast load using Blue Dot with those bullets, still without the full power "Boom" of the 22.250...

First, welcome to the Campfire here..

secondly if desiring to use Blue Dot in the 6mm Rem case, or any similar case ( 257 Roberts, 7 x 57 Mauser, 6.5 x 55)... max load with Blue Dot is 24 grains, regardless of bullet weights under 140/142 grains..this includes the lighter bullets also..Characteristics of Blue Dot is not like with slower powders, where the max charge for a say a 60 grain bullet is higher than with a 105 grainer..( in 6mm Rem or 243)...

Max with Blue Dot is Max almost across the board...sure it can be pushed a little, but I like passing on simple rules of thumb..people get less confused..

Now when we take a look at the 6mm Rem, I've settled on my max load with ALL bullet weights as being 22.5 grains... reasoning is, velocity is fast enough for what I am using it for...

secondly, pressure is in the 40 to 45 K CUP range.. ( standards for the older 7 x 57 and 257 Roberts loads) so it is easy on the brass...can get away with a lot of neck sizing, not working the brass as much and stretching out brass life dramatically..

even in shot out barrels, Blue Dot and SR 4759 loads will still add a fairly longer life span to the barrel for accuracy.... same with a bad shooting barrel..

guess that is attributive to the powder's consistency..

you'll also notice there is not very much velocity deviation spread when you chronograph some of these loads...

Thanks a lot seafire I can not wait to try these in my encore 223 with 55 grain bullets and my encore 204 with 32or 34 grain bullets.also I think these will be a real blast in my 6mm ackley ,as the heat and barrel wear will be low.they should be a real hoot to shoot the 60 grain hp with this rifle. it should be like a super high speed bb gun for recoil as it tips the scale at 24 lbs right now.

What velocity are you getting ballpark with 22.5 and bullet?

I will be working up 60 grain hp loads as mine is a 14 twist barrel I got for light bullets.

Should I start about 12 grains of bluedot and work towards your 22.5 loads.
One other thing I have my die for this rifle set to seat just short of touching the lands will this be ok for these or should I give the bullet a bit more room to move?
Thanks kurt

VonGruff,

I'm testing at 30 yards because that's where this rifle will be shot the most. (from my front porch) Gotta keep the ground squirels out of my bird feeder!

I have a dirt bank at 30 yards, so this is handy for me.

I will also be testing at 100 yards to see how this load will work for Sage rats.

Virgil B.

That is a jazzy looking scope there, Kurt. I like it and it compliments your stock quite well.

Kurt...

you can go right to 22.5 grains, unless you want to work up to that point and see what some of the other charge weights give you..

I always seat my bullets just short of touching the lands also...

as long as you are not touching the lands..just make a dummy round and make sure everything goes in nice and smooth...with no resistance...

with loads even at 22.5 grains of Blue Dot, you'll notice that pressure is still low enough, that neck sizing your brass is all you really need to do for 3 or 4 firings.. at least in my 6mm Rem..

I don't have my notes, but the MV should be in the 3250 to 3300 fps or so ( IIRC).. you'll find that Sierra HP will be quite explosive..

essentially you are making your 6mm Rem, recoil like shooting a 6 x 45 instead..

Thanks I still got a lot to do yet but I Just have to take a brake from working on it to shoot it.I am working on a brass butt plate I made but do not have that done yet.

These Blue dot loads are a BLAST!!!!!!
I loaded some foe 223 with 55 grain bullet 11.1 blue dot one hole
at 50 yds,loaded some 30-30 for 94 win with 160 grain cast lead fn
@ 10 grains blue dot and they shot good,also loaded same bullet in 30-06 with 12 grains blue dot and they shot well.These 30-30 and 30-06 loads will work great for what I was looking for= coons in garden and put the smack down on them with the cast lead 160 grain bullets but still like a 22 to shoot.
My 10 year old was shooting the 1918 Springfield 30-06 with these loads today .
Thanks for all the info guys.
Kurt

Seafire knows what he is talking about with these loads.

I should say so..

I just got back from the range and tried a few Blue Dot/55 grain loads in the .223..

All shot good, but my rifle liked 12.0 grains the best...Ill try some more at 200 yds next time...they shot an easy .75 at 100 yds..

Ingwe

I've appreciated Seafire's testing on these loads with Blue Dot. I currently use it in .357 Mag (obvious usage), 6PPC, .260 Rem, .243 Win, .308, and .30-06. The 6PPC is a lot of fun to run with BD and 60 gr. Sierras and makes for very cheap shooting in addition to a good introduction to centerfire's for my daughters in a year or two. I use them in my other rifles for offhand practice loads out to 200 yds on quart oil bottles and milk jugs. Lots of good field position practice, much less recoil and muzzle blast and getting inaccurate loads with BD is MUCH harder than getting accurate loads - as long as I stay within parameters set by Seafire I've enjoyed MOA or less with every bullet and rifle I've sent it through.

I also use the Blue Dot loads as outlined by Seafire, quite a few of them in fact.

I'd like to remind everyone that they need to be extra careful and make sure of your loading technique that you don't double charge a case.

In my loading, I'll put the empty cases to the right of the press, near the measure, drop a charge, then set that case in another block to the left of the press. After charging, I'll check each case with a wooden dowel that marked with a pencil line around the top of the case. I lower this into each case and note where the line is in relation to the case. Any significant differences get dumped out and recharged. Only after checking the powder level of the whole block (it literally takes a minute to do this) will I seat bullets. In small cases, I find I can't really judge the powder level by looking in like you can with full charges of a more appropriate powder for caliber.

I really like shooting the reduced loads and just take those few extra precautions to keep it safe.

Very good advise ,I use a pencil with a mark on it as you do.

a dowel with marks on it works well also...

I charge each case, then seat the bullet.

No way to dubble charge this way.

Virgil B.

Just a quick note regarding factory recommendations ... if you go back into the mid to late 80's, Blue Dot was indeed listed as a rifle powder for 221Fireball, 308Win and 45/70. I posted a link to a scan from an old Australian magazine on AR awhile back that showed it was a factory recommendation.

I now notice that Alliant 2400 is listed in the Alliant manual in the 444Marlin at a level well reduced compared to another manual I have access to.

Some loads it seems pass into obscurity due to a lack of popularity, legal considerations and a lack of space in the manuals.

Blue Dot is dangerous if double charged ... I think everyone recognises that. But I've used it in the 308Win, 7.62x54R, 222Rimmed, 358Win and will launch into the 243Win soon.
Cheers...
Con

Nice to see everyone getting plinking time in. I've been shooting BD since John brought a bunch of his data sheets into my office probibly 10 years ago. I use/have used BD in 222, 223, 22-250, 243, 250 sav, 260, 30 carbine, 30-30, 300 sav 308 win. Not to mention the 38 spl 357, 41 and 44 rem mags. It's a great stock pile powder because of it's high utility in any cartridge.

Thanks again John

Mike

Mike,

has it been that long ago? I think it was more like 6 or years...

be it whatever, glad they are of use to you... I remember we first talked about it for our sons to use..they are both older now..

but it still makes a good accurate powder charge, with low recoil, low barrel wear.. and great off season economical practice time...

and by the way I have to give Mike Credit for introducing me to 24 hour here...I'm here per his invite!

thanks for that Mike!

Tried some Blue Dot in my .223 as per your reccomendations...I must say, it worked just as you said it would! Very accurate at 100 yds,mild, and didnt heat the barrel up!! nice thing to have and know for those days when 100s of rounds are sent downrange after gophs!
Gawd! I have so many exclamation points in this post, youd have thought Varmintguy wrote it!!



Ingwe

TTT

When I load Unique in rifle cases I look for a charge that will be at least 50% load density.

I figure it will be pretty hard to not notice a double-charge when powder is spilling out the top of the case.

Handgunners have loaded millions and millions of rounds using Bullseye in charge levels well below 50% case capacity for over eighty years - and fired them in weak handguns to boot. Yet no one seems overly concerned about a double charge of one of the fastest powders known. I know it has happened, but then so has substituting the wrong powder, using the wrong weight bullet, firing the wrong cartridge in the wrong rifle, using weak tired brass.....

Enough hand wringing over what "could" happen with BlueDot loads. Practice the same level of attention that we do with every other facet of handloading and we'll all be fine.



.

unfortunately, todays society is more concerned about catering to idiots and screw ups...

in society previously, those types were looked at for what they were... and were blamed for screwing up instead of being able to pass the blame to someone else..

Saved for future reference