Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting In defense of big rifles

Saddlesore -

We often disagree but I'm with you on using smaller cartridges for practice. My .257 Roberts is my favorite rifle. I use it to shoot clay pigeons at 400 and steel at 500. Recoil is minimal.

Love my big guns, too, but they get shot much less. My "Rhino Blaster" .45-70 loads (460g HC @ 1812fps) generate over twice the recoil of my .30-06. They will take anything that walks but I don't shoot them much at all.

Because there's no downside to hitting a big critter with a big bullet, IF the shooter can shoot the gun launching the bigger bullet, of course.

I can launch a 140-gn .280 caliber bullet at 2825 fps from my 7-08, accuratly. Or, I can launch a 225-gn, .33 caliber bullet from my .338, accuratly, at the same speed with the same trajectory more or less...

When the game animal could weigh 600 or more pounds, is considered tenacious in some cases, and that tenaciousness could make extractibg the SOB hellacious if he goes just a couple hundred yards... Then, I find the bigger boomer a comfort. Nothing wrong with that.

You gotta be able to shoot the sucker though. Some can't, or won't put in the work. That's fine too.

Ringman,
I'm pretty sure this whole thread was supposed to answer that question. However, our arguments for the bigguns just don't make sense for everyone.
Compared with the .243, .250 Savage, .260 or .25-06 or similar calibers for elk, there isn't the bet-hedging going on. You don't have to say: "if perfectly broadside at 150 yards with a heavy for caliber superpremium bullet, just behind the shoulder, into the ribs only, I'd take the shot."
There are fewer shots you will feel you have to turn down with a Bertha. I think many guys would rather be limited by their own ability, rather than their equipment(but others enjoy being limited by their equipment and more power to em). As for "why carry more than is needed?", a large caliber doesn't have to weigh more than a little one. My .358 weighs considerably less than my .264, but no doubt a short action can be made to weigh less than a standard or long action.
Now we're also assuming we can shoot a big momma as well as a little sweetheart, which probably isn't often the case. However, this is still an elk thread and elk aren't all that tough to hit under 400 yards. Under 400, 2 MOA accuracy (and I suspect most big bore advocates can do better than that) is plenty sufficient, but maybe not confidence inspiring.
Oh yeah, and recoil tolerance is a personal thing.
So I'll turn the question around, "why wouldn't you carry as much as you're comfortable with?"

Very happy we've kept to my original intent of keeping this lighter than some of the pissing contests such threads sometimes become. Good balance of insight here. (I should be used to that here)

exio, I think your "bet-hedging" angle is relevant to many that prefer the higher octane calibers.

340, Thats what my brother told me about the longer ranges ya`ll shoot up there in Idaho,I will most likely go with my 270 Roy
as a Elk gun.I tote and shoot my 405 WCF MOST of all my guns deer hunting here in `Bama. My first 2 guns my late father bought me to hunt with were a old Sears Catalog Ted Williams model Winchester 94 carbine 30-30 and a H&R SINGLE barrel 10 gauge shotgun with a 32 ? inch extra full coke.
Most of you here on the fire have seen my Z-HAT Custom 1895 405 WCF. I can hit with it real good with the adj. express sights that Fred installed, And it FLATTENS deer from any angle.
Nothing like the thump when 300 grains hits the bone!

Probably the most imprtant thing I have learned in my old age,is that I should have taken better care of my body in my younger age.Not that it matters a hill of beans to me now.

Maybe this will take root in the brains of some of the younger guys though.

Probably occasional use of big boomers is not going to bother anyone much,but a constant diet will. Every trauma you inflict on your body comes back to haunt you after you pass about 50 or so, but with some it is older.

Smacking your shoulder consistently with 25-40+ ft lbs of recoil has some serious effects on the make up of your shoulder. Yes,I know when we are in our 20's,30's and even 40's ,we think we are ten foot tall and bullet proof, even if we are 6-5 and weigh 280 lbs.

There will come a time when even lowly .06's will feel like some one ran a hot poker through your shoulder every time you shoot it.

There are a lot of us out here that use to think stuffing 38 specail cases in our ears sufficed as hearing protection and now have that constant ringing in our ears and say "Huh?" a lot.

Thinking the big rifles will not have an effect on you is about the same thing.

I used to work in a gun shop in a slugs only zone in Southern Minnesota. I couldn't tell you how many 12 gauge slug guns I have fired, because the customer either couldn't or wouldn't sight them in for themselves. I used to love reading Elmer Keith,
and stories about the huge rifles used in Africa.
Now I realize that the 35 Whelen is enough for anything I am ever going to hunt.
whelennut

Good point. Try run that question past the pilot next time as you board a plane.

I don't think any of us can always know or control time, distance, and interceding factors from point A to point B.

Saddlesore taking care of your body is all a part of life and some just do it better than others. It is not in just using a rifle or gettting smacked with all that recoil, it's eating right, proper sleep and training or excercise and stretching that makes one heck of a difference when you turn passed that big 50.

I don't practice much with big bores nowdays....I just don't need to to that anymore, I use smaller calibers that are set up just like my big bores and shoot them from shooting positions, not just off a shooting bench. This type of thing keeps me good to go when hunting season turns the corner.

Tonk.I'll give you that for sure. I worked 30 years in underground nuclear testing in a hard rock mining enviornment.Breathing bad air, heavy lifting, loud noise, 10 hr days. When you came out side, you were dead beat.

When I wasn't doing that I was doing ranch work ,which isn't easy 99% of the time, including breaking rough stock if needed. When growing up,I helped work a hardscrabble dairy farm.

Probably not too differnt from most on here of our generation

Don't know about the sleep as most of the time it was falling into bed exhasuted. Too tired to do that stretching thing etc.
Now retired,I do walk about 2 miles a day and exersize every day.Just can't undo the damage from early years though, and hope to convince some younger guys to take a little more care than I did

I'm sort of one of those one rifle guys. I do have a rifle I inherited from my grandfather that I occasionally hunt with. But mostly I use a .300 win. I shoot one load, 200 NPs. I want to be able to go anywhere and kill stuff from any sane angle with that one rifle and load. That combo gets the job done and is good to go until I see Africa for the bigger stuff.

Saddlesore,
I'm only 32 and the recoil doesn't bother me, but I am starting to see differences from when I was in my early 20s. I don't remember hurting for as long when my saddle has leaked for instance. I did start to play b-ball for exercise, but that hurts too. My brother who is 10 years younger is starting to roll his eyes at my complaints.

There is nothing wrong with shooting a bigger rifle if you can shoot it well.I've seen guys that were bums with big rifles, and I've seen guys that were bums with smaller rifles.The thing that seperates such folks from good riflemen is "practice",nothing more.You find your recoil tolerance and stick to it.

I am a big gun nut! The country I hunt is like 340boy described 25 yards to 500 yards in the same outing.
I have shot Elk with a 30-06 and 7mm rem mag I have also shot Elk with a 300 win mag,300 wby,338 win,340 weatherby.
Until you have had the experience of seeing an animal hit with a 340 or 338 it is hard to desribe the difference.
I currently own 2 338s 2 340s a 375 H&H a 35 whelen and a 270 win. For me the 270 is a "deer rifle" I know people have feelings about it but I did say "for me" this time.
It is not that the 270 would not do the job it will. I just won't carry it Elk hunting if I have better options available to me.
A few years back I came onto a herd of 4 elk in the timber and the one closest to me was a spike. They ran, I got on him, followed him, fired, he went down but as I shot I saw "white" in the scope. Long story short I had shot through 8" of dead yellow fir and the 210 nosler had enough giddy-up left to kill the animal.
I did not intend to to shoot the tree but as in all things Elk hunting something went wrong. I would not try that shot it just happened.
My 340 will push a 210 nosler at nearly 3200 fps! that is flat!
a 225 at 3000 has a better BC and the effects at 500 yards are still over a ton of energy and about only 4 ft.low. pretty easy shot at a 30" target. That same 225 gr bullet @200 yards has more energy than a 45-70 or 30-06 has at the muzzle! look it up.
(I know energy is not everything)
Recoil does not seem to bother me as it does some. I have never been "scoped" I have never had any lasting effects from 30+ years shooting heavy cartridges. In fact I have never felt the recoil from the big stick when shooting at an animal.
The shots we get are few and far between I hunt in canyon country and as I get older carrying a heavy rifle is tougher to carry so I build them lighter. I sight in/ load develop with a lead sled. I shoot the big guns offhand quite a bit as that helps with recoil and learing what to expect.
I practice with the 270 alot and I also shoot a 22-250 (but I can't find bullets) You can train yourself to handle the recoil easier than you think.
For me it makes no sense to work all year so I can go and have to pass a shot or lose an animal because I was not willing to work to overcome some heavy recoil and did not bring enough stick.
Better bullets? it goes up the scale big guns like better bullets too. 235 tsx from a 375 H&H leave the snout at 3000+or - That is a 235 gr. mono bullet! that is about the same spped a 300 win shoots a 180gr.
I would much rather shoot a 375 than a 30-06 or 300 win mag. less punch more push.
You guys do what you want but I'll be shooting the bigger stuff not because I have to but because I might wish I had.

There's a good line in defense of our big stuff.

"because I might wish I had".
Good one cowkiller.

i like to take 2 guns where i hunt. a 338 for the more open stuff and a 30-06 loaded with 200 grainers in the thick stuff. never have felt undergunned carrying an 06

Cowkiller: Good post! You got my blood boiling with that one!Wish I had a 338 again....but I do have a 375 with 250's,when needed

CowKiller.....You and I are on the same page in many respects! I take at least 2 rifles with me when elk hunting and sometimes 3 by golly. A .338 Win mag, 300 Ultra mag and .338/06 that is very light and easy to carry around those mountains.

Yep, unless you have used and shot an elk with a .338 mag, 340 Wby or .375H&H you won't know the difference in hunting them with heavy calibers. I have done so with the .270 Win, 30-06 and 7mm mag. I believe in big calibers and heavy bullets simply put. I feel it takes a lot of those limitations away, that you may have with those smaller calibers.

+1

I'm the OP and wish I'd thought of that one.

My first rifle is a Marlin 336T 30-30. Great for close range deer. I really need to get a nice large bore lever for bigger things and closer ranges. My .340 MkV just feels funny in thicker stuff, maybe because of my being familiar with the 336 in that environment.

Nothing wrong with coming up with a reason for another rifle, right?

I've been using a 9.3x62 and a 375 H&H, guess I need to step up

So where does it all end? At what point do you have enough? Do the .416 and 500 nitro express shooters think the .338 and .375 are inadequate? I could think of a few scenarios where one carrying a .416 or such might be able to take a shot whereas the person carrying a .338 might not be able to.

When we think about handguns,the 44 mag was thought to be the tops 20 yrs ago. Then the 454 Casul came out,now the .500 S&W. Talk to the 500 S&W guys and they seemed to think the 44 mag is now totally inadequte. Yet if you ask them they usuually use to hunt with one.
I'm reminded of my last visit to PA.I met guys carrying.338's .375 H&H's,300 Weatherby Mags,and .308 Norma mags to kill a 150 lb whitetail.

I'm not trying to say,don't use one, if that is what you want, but yes dead is dead, and there is no such thing as more deader.

No matter what you use,there will come a time when you should pass on a shot.Probably you could say,"Well, if I was carrying a 50BMG,I could have taken that shot.