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when you say silly things like that, I despair at your chances of ever passing a bar exam.

The reason for this is that the entire culture has been warped by the police patrol/nanny state mentality. The sooner we change that, the sooner our culture will begin to heal itself.

PS Imagine a boy who was raised by a hypochondriacal and over protective mother who insisted that he wear a network of body braces from the time he was three. Now he's ten years old and a doctor examined him and told the mother that there was never anything wrong with him and she should remove the braces right away so he can learn to do all the normal things a boy is normally capable of doing. You folks are that mother, the boy is our culture, the network of braces is the police patrol/nanny state mentality, and I'm that doctor in this debate.

The differences are artificially imposed in the modern law, but even still they are (practically speaking) only slight. However, I'm aware of the slight differences, so you need not despair.

is "artificially imposed in the modern law" your way of saying that's what the law is? What does that mean? How is law artificially imposed? Does that just mean you disagree with it?

and the differences between the arrest powers of constables, bailiffs and sheriffs and those of private citizens are ancient and significant.

Where the rubber actually hits the road, they are only slight differences, and most are the result of court decisions which have gradually and artificially elevated the police officer in relation to the ordinary citizen.

PS I've already taken and passed the Multistate (MBE) Exam with flying colors. Did particularly well on the criminal procedure aspect, in fact. Ethics (MPRE) Exam is also under my belt, and also passed with flying colors. Now it's on to the Florida distinctions Exam (the last of them). In Florida, they permit you take these tests at different times, which I've chosen to take full advantage of.

I took it in the dark ages.....pre-multi state. You took it for eight hours on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday. La. has adopted the multi-state only on the ethics part, due to our Frog and Spanish based civil law.


If you passed criminal procedure, you must have been giving different answers from those you put up here

Nope. As I said, I'm aware of the slight distinctions in arrest powers between cops and the folks. Basically, the folks can accomplish the same result. Most of the modern distinctions would have been alien to the Founding Fathers.

GOD BLESS THE 5TH AMENDMENT

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation





"The few can�t control the many unless the many control each other"

Taken from an excerpt about the scene in Britain, the peach of the tree known as the Orwellian State, but the interesting thing about studying Britain and the Police State there is how it parallels our own, in fact the writer even suggests Britain's plan is the grand scheme for the rest of the world.
But I will be following up with this story later,
Today we will be looking at a lecture by A professor who emphatically informs us citizens WHY

YOU SHOULD NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVq6N0xAEEM

Your not showing anything new. This has been posted long before you showed up.

BTW the not talking to LE didn't do you any good you still got smacked. And now if you try any smartass'd responses. The Judge will revoke your probation, and you'll have to serve the remainder of your sentence.

You know Hawk, I like you and I think you are a smart guy, far from a loon, but you have really lost a realistic perspective on this subject. You have got carried away for your longing of the wild west days.

Think about it, what will keep any of the "volunteer militias and volunteer night watch or private security" from becoming abusive, aren't they people just like cops? Who's to say that the "volunteer militia" won't stomp the hell out of somebody, they don't even have their jobs on the line? Remember this thread started over police brutality, and now you are advocating what would most likely lead to more brutality.

At first you decried cops for a lack of professionalism, now you advocate taking even more professionalism out of the game, and then expect less excessive force and corruption?

This would lend other to believe you flat out believe LEOs to be bad people, and wish to put law enforcement back in the hands of the good people.

Would you call vaccination and preventative medicine hypochondriacal? Just as we have evolved into preventing illness before it inflicts, we now try to prevent crime before it inflicts. I guess you would see both of those as the softening of our society?

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The majority of people won't be involved in patrolling their neighborhoods on a 24/7 365 basis. If a crime did occur and the suspect is unknown and out of the area of the neighborhood, prior to apprehension. Do you think that the neighbors are going to spend the hours and hours required to investigate the crime?

Including recover the evidence and go through the legal procedures to insure that if the suspect is found, the case doesn't get tossed on a procedural error? Now i know you don't believe it, but LEO's do have the training to conduct those investigations etc.

It's interesting that in some places you can't get enough volunteer's trained to respond to fire and rescue calls. This in places that don't have full time fire and rescue service. People aren't even willing to spend the hours needed to learn how to fight a fire, to keep theirs and the neighbors home from burning down.

They darn sure won't spend the time conducting proactive patrolling and criminal investigation in their communities. If folks want to get involved, they need to join a reserve LE program in their community.

Again i think your reading off the Net and have no real world experience. If you got out and see things in "real time", it might surprise you regarding LE.

Good grief, talk about arrogance.

The voluntary posts would be held by your neighbors and friends, and probably you as well. If they should violate the law, press charges against them with the elected sheriff and a warrant will be made out if there seems to be legitimacy to the complaint. Do you think I'd have been ok with the law if I had used my post as volunteer nightwatchman to break into someone's home or rough up a neighbor? Absurd right? Use your head.

As for the private security force, I've lived in communities where we had them. The reason they work well is that it's all very local and small scale. That's why conservatives are always preaching about local self-government, local accountability, and local control. When it's local, you can exert a huge amount of influence over what happens in your community. If they don't serve you the way you think they should, they get fired and replaced. Try firing the NYC Police Department, for example. Small is good. Local is good. Accountable to the local community is good.

No, those would be such as the rule of law, the courts, the elected sheriff ready to serve warrants when called upon, or to send out some deputies if assistance is asked for, i.e., things that are helpful to society. The network of braces would be an over reaction to the point of creating a destructive dependency in areas where folks are capable of doing things on their own, i.e., the surveillance state that we've recently been developing into. Want to see the future of it? Travel to London.

You folks are stuck on this idea of all or nothing, aren't you? If I'm not in favor of the current status of ever-increasing ever-expanding police/government monitoring/surveillance and the nanny state, then I'm an anarchist, is that the idea?

Wow, you have put way too much thought into this which tells me one thing, this exercise is pointless becasue you are obsessed with what will never happen becasue society evolved away from what you advocate.

I guess we could also go back to private fire depts, those who can afford a policy will have their fires put out, those who can't can watch their homes burn.

I'm starting to feel like I'm arguing with Barak

Yeah, I guess to a mouse there aren't any important differences between a cat and a dog.

Sheeeet, don't get lost in your own bravado friend, it's just talking. When you need them, you'll call them, same as me.

Sure I will. Did you ever hear me complain about the availability of armed assistance?

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As has been stated private security forces have no authority other then to be a night watch service. They don't conduct proactive criminal investigations. If a crime has been committed LE will still have to come in and investigate. Private security's more reactive then LE is at times unfortunately.

Do you truly understand how much crime is stopped by proactive LE? In let's say a subdivision by LE looking for such things as suspicious veh's. Private security doesn't have that authority to conduct traffic stops.

I'd rather have LE stop Johnny the thief, in his car while he's casing the subdivision, versus having private security around. Johnny isn't worried about private security. He knows that private security won't make a traffic stop on him, LE will.

Let me give you a scenario, it's 2.30AM in a subdivision, an LEO who works that zone, knows that not many folks are out at that time of morning. A computer check of the veh. cruising around comes back to a veh. not registered to a homeowner in the area. The driver of the veh. is acting suspicious. A cross check of the registered owner comes back to a previously convicted burglar.

Private security doesn't have the data base to know these things. Besides they probably wouldn't even stop the veh. to determine what the person is doing in the subdivision.