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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,833
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
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Someone mentioned speed kills, I said animals don't care; Yeah, faster can equal more damage, fine, I agree with that.
NOOO!!!!! Don't quit arguing. It's been all I can do to find any disagreemnt, and I have been grumpy all day. LOL!!!! I too disagree with the idea that speed kills. Blood loss is what kills, and blood loss is caused by tissue damage. Speed is often an enabler of an increase in tissue damage, which may or may not result in a quicker kill.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,990 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,990 Likes: 3 |
Hit stuff too fast and you don't get more blood loss, you get more clotting/bloodshot.
That is the beauty of broadheads, TSX's and flat/dished noses...
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,833
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,833 |
The most extreme case of a wound channel on a deer happened with a small Texas whitetail at around 100 yds and a 30 cal, 165 Swift Scirocco launched at 3150 FPS. The entrance wound--though the ribs--was thumb sized, but the exit wound was a 4" x 6" hole, with guts and broken ribs pushed through the hole. Even I thought that was too much..............
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,383 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,383 Likes: 1 |
I assume some loonies may not like the .308 but I surely do.
I like it in lightweight lever guns like the 99F and in light bolt actions. For whatever reason there seem to be lots of lightweight 308 length actions.
The .308 in a Montana is as near perfect a blacktail rifle as I could imagine. The .308 kills elk just fine too.
Unless of course Kimber wises up and builds a true "30-06" action
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,833
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,833 |
The only way to improve on the Kimber 308 for Blacktails, hogs, black bear, and elk is to make it am M-70 Classic in an Edge in 30-06....... 
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,191
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,191 |
Only if it goes 6 Lbs 3 Oz ready to hunt  two days and only 5 pages this time? I leave for 3 days and this is the best you guys can do?? Nobody said "Mine shoots farrer" or fired their Photobucket account Full Auto yet?
I'm Irish...
Of course I know how to patch drywall
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,613 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,613 Likes: 2 |
what would it have to do to be considered popular? beat out the hundred year old '06? It does beat the 30-06 in RCBS die sales in 2006 and 2007. 2003 .30-06 Spr .223 Rem .308 Win.22-250 Rem .270 Win .243 Win .45 ACP .300 Win Mag .357 MAG .44 MAG 2004 .30-06 Spr .22-250 Rem .270 Win .45 ACP .300 WSM 7MM Rem Mag .44 MAG .357 MAG .223 Rem .308 Win2005 .204 Rug .30-06 Spr .223 Rem .308 Win.243 Win .22-250 Rem .45 ACP .270 Win .300 Win Mag .44 MAG 2006 .223 Rem .308 Win.30-06 Spr .243 WSSM .22-250 Rem .204 Rug .270 WSM .45 ACP .357 MAG .300 WSM 2007 .223 Rem .308 Win.30-06 Spr .45 ACP .22-250 Rem .243 Win 357 MAG .270 Win .300 Win Mag .204 Ruger
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,348 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,348 Likes: 1 |
I bet more 30-06 hunting ammunition is sold than 308 ammunition!
most folks these days are just either dyed in the wool aught sixer's, or they has gots to havs a short magnum, or they want a light rifle for the kids (.243)!
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,514 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,514 Likes: 1 |
hey dancing bear - i thought kimber already had a long action 30-06 on the market. how is it not a "true" 30-06 action?
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,726 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,726 Likes: 1 |
what would it have to do to be considered popular? beat out the hundred year old '06? It does beat the 30-06 in RCBS die sales in 2006 and 2007. 2003 .30-06 Spr .223 Rem .308 Win.22-250 Rem .270 Win .243 Win .45 ACP .300 Win Mag .357 MAG .44 MAG 2004 .30-06 Spr .22-250 Rem .270 Win .45 ACP .300 WSM 7MM Rem Mag .44 MAG .357 MAG .223 Rem .308 Win2005 .204 Rug .30-06 Spr .223 Rem .308 Win.243 Win .22-250 Rem .45 ACP .270 Win .300 Win Mag .44 MAG 2006 .223 Rem .308 Win.30-06 Spr .243 WSSM .22-250 Rem .204 Rug .270 WSM .45 ACP .357 MAG .300 WSM 2007 .223 Rem .308 Win.30-06 Spr .45 ACP .22-250 Rem .243 Win 357 MAG .270 Win .300 Win Mag .204 Ruger I'd say, by the look of things here, that it is a heckuva lot more popular than some would realize!Just because us rifle loonies don't go crazy on it doesn't mean the rest of the World doesn't hunt with and shoot with it. I have rifles in other calibers I like more, but I own abot 5 in .308 - gotta be a reason for that!! Cat
scopes are cool, but slings 'n' irons RULE!
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14,807
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 14,807 |
hey dancing bear - i thought kimber already had a long action 30-06 on the market. how is it not a "true" 30-06 action? When Kimber announced the 30-06 in their new 8400 long action I and other rifle enthusiasts were disapointed that the 06 had been put in that big action. We feel that the smaller, lighter and neater 84M action could have been lengthened and chambered for the 06 and its siblings. The 8400 action will take the 375 H&H. Its bigger than the 84M all around. One reason the 308 is popular is that I bought one in the 84M Montana. I would have got a 30-06 instead if it had been chambered in a lengthened 84M.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,626 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,626 Likes: 4 |
I forget who said, ""speed kills...
the .308 has the necessary speed to kill reliably, but the speed to kill impressively evades it..."
All I can say to that is BS! The two longest shots I ever made on deer were at 427 paces (no rangefinders back in 1973) and a 250 yard shot laser measured a few years back. Both shots were witnessed and the longer shot was paced off by thre people and the paces average out. Both deer dropped at the shot. Most of the deer I've kiled were shot at ranges closer that those two. I've ben using the .308 for deer most of the time since 1971 when I bought my first one, a Remington 660. The load, from what I recall in that rifle was a stiff load of H-335 and a 150 gr. Sierra Pro-hunter, although I don't recall if they called them by that name back then. Velocity for the load is unknown, no chronographs available at the time.
first of all, i'm the one who claimed above that speed kills... if it doesn't, we can all stop worrying about availability of primers and powder and use a slingshot on our deer... bows and archery hunting have been mentioned by a couple of posters by way of argument... please post details of your 200 yd bow kills...and yes, for most who hunt with a bow, speed is treasured... and let's look at the title of this thread again... Subject: Re: Why isn't the 308 more popular?
my answer to that question is that it could only be more popular than it is if it had the velocity of a mag .30 with the handling and recoil attributes of the 30-30... deer were never mentioned in tho original post, but in full acknowledgment that they are the primary species for most hunters i mentioned that faster bullets kill faster... i specifically mentioned the .243, and i'll stand by that... the .220 swift was thrown up in response, and i'll even stand by it as a cartridge that, when used on deer, will generally put them on the ground quicker than the .308 with most 150-180 grain bullets... FWIW i do not consider deer to be big game per se... i count them as medium game at best, and have been involved in culling operations in which they were shot as vermin... and a varmint rifle is appropriate for that... in a subsequent post i mentioned that, IMO, the .300 winchester was the most business like cartridge available for big game hunting... I forget who said, ""speed kills...
the .308 has the necessary speed to kill reliably, but the speed to kill impressively evades it..."
All I can say to that is BS! The two longest shots I ever made on deer were at 427 paces (no rangefinders back in 1973) and a 250 yard shot laser measured a few years back.
I didn't draw for elk this year so I don't have to play with the magnums.
I'll be taking my new .308 out sometime during the next week to see how it does and just get it sighted in.
Doesn't kill impressively? Yeah, right! I know of a couple dozen deer that would argue that point, if they were around to argue.
Would I use one on elk? While I have betetr rifles for elk, I wouldn't feel too under gunned if all I had was one of my .308s.
Paul B. makes me wonder just what we're arguing about...
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,753 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,753 Likes: 6 |
Must be a slow news week. You guys crack me up.
Carefully, look into this big jar of pickles and tell me why the green ones aren't more popular.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/AP39Jhm.jpg)
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,813
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,813 |
.308W-.30-06-.300WM and deer? How far can you shoot with consistent accuracy? Once you overstep your ability the extra speed of one over the other is wasted and meaningless.
The .308W will out run the majority of us.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810 |
Must be a slow news week. You guys crack me up.
Carefully, look into this big jar of pickles and tell me why the green ones aren't more popular. Ahhhh, which shade of green are you referring to?
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,833
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,833 |
Only if it goes 6 Lbs 3 Oz ready to hunt two days and only 5 pages this time? I leave for 3 days and this is the best you guys can do?? Nobody said "Mine shoots farrer" or fired their Photobucket account Full Auto yet? I just don't like a rifle that weighs much under 7.5 lbs with the scope, and beleive me I have tried........... I also don't like to haul them around much when they start exceeding 9.5 lbs.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
Must be a slow news week. You guys crack me up.
Carefully, look into this big jar of pickles and tell me why the green ones aren't more popular. That's funny.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
.308 is boring, is the reason. It's one of those cartridges that is used as a reference point, but most guys seem to want to bracket around it... I mean, I can excited about a 7mm-08, 338 Fed, or REALLY excited about my .358... but .308? Bo-ring!
:-)
(somewhat tongue in cheek; I own a couple now and have owned several others)
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,262
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,262 |
I had a savage99 in 308 it was so accurate it was scarie,I used it to head shoot deer up to 100 yds and never missed or lost one, but like a dumbazz I sold it to get a 7mm08 which I missed three deer as close as 50 yds to 100 yds the first year I hunted with it(shoulder shots not head). the first shot from a cold barrel was always a flier the rest would group under an inch. I tried sighting it in on a cold barrel but the flyer would be in any direction. so I sold it and used my old reliable 30-06 and kicked my azz for selling my 99. 
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,237 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,237 Likes: 1 |
.308 is boring, is the reason. It's one of those cartridges that is used as a reference point, but most guys seem to want to bracket around it... I mean, I can excited about a 7mm-08, 338 Fed, or REALLY excited about my .358... but .308? Bo-ring!
:-)
(somewhat tongue in cheek; I own a couple now and have owned several others) If I can get some shooting time in, I hope to be bored to death with this one!  [img][IMG] http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m238/Kevin_Teed/LVSF308.jpg[/img][/img]
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