Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Car companies bankruptcy

At the request of the car companies and our brilliant national leaders we have loaned the car companies billions of dollars. With one of the car companies already in bankruptcy, and the other edging closer, are our loans secure or are they subject to the bankruptcy courts? Typically these settlments are for pennies on the dollar. Have we made yet another bad investment? With control of Chrysler, seemingly, moving offshore, are we subsidizing the European Economic Union? I was just wondering if we have squandered our children's, and grandchildren's future? WHAT SAY YE

neither of the car companies are expected to re-pay any of the $70B they're getting. The govt might get some back when (if) it sells it's interest but that'll be about it.

I'm more concerned wit the ongoing cash infusions, and the coming bail out of your bankrupt state.

Do ya happen to know if Robert Mugabe and Barack Obama are related??

I don't know, but I think that Gideon Gono and "Turbo tax" Tim Giethner went to the same business school.

Utah Lefty: You are correct to be worried about the pending bail-out of California. I wish that I could tell you that it wasn't going to happen, but I wish it wouldn't. If they are given the money the lesson of a balanced checkbook will be lost. At that point you have lost the war. The liberals will never learn that they can't give everybody everything. Also, I wish that I could tell you that this would be the last state that you are going to have to bail-out. I guess that without fiscal restraint,being learned by our politicians, we are in deep trouble.

There is no hope of recovery as long as the top decisions are being made by political academics with no business experience, environmentalists, and union bosses.

The union talks of concessions, but GM, Ford and Chrysler cannot be profitable until the entire benefits package is reduced from an average of $73.00 an hour to, at most, $43.00 an hour.

The union thinks they can ride this government money a few months and then sell of their share of the company to fund pensions. It won't work.

The idiot liberals are still talking about redesigning the GM product line to "green cars" the public hates. They talk about doing things which take 3 to 5 years, when they only have weeks to work. It is madness.

When the dollar collapses, none of it will be relevant anymore. The US$ broke down below critical support at .80 yesterday, on it's way down to worthlessness. With the Fed and Treasury creating more dollars out of nothing to support the profligacy of the Government, it won't be long before we experience the wonders of the Zimbabwe economic miracle brought about by Mugabe and his Treasury official, Gideon Gono.

In the state of California. I am forced to pay people that don't want to work, as well as the costs of people who will do the work but are not here legally. It is little wonder that the tax initiatives of last week went down big. If the state were put into receivership, the lesson learned would not only benefit the legislature of this state, but also be observed by others. Enough is enough!

Sorta like stoppin' the wife from running up a 60,000 dollar credit card bill on a 40,000 dollar paycheck...

I think that the problem has been well enuciated and discussed. It may, very well, be time to discuss what are the moves that a prudent person would make. Is now the time to get long on gold, even at the price that it is today? What other moves would be prudent?

I read over these posts and everybody has it wrong. It's about power and control. We live in a Fascist state.

First, the bailouts of giant corporations is an attempt to gain control over every company in America. Some banks have made a come back and want to re-paid their loans and the government has refused to accept the re-payments. The equality of outcome and environmental crowd believes that total control of corporations will give them the ability to re-make America into the Utopian Empire they believe America should be. It's their religion.

Second, the above crowd also want to control every state in the Union. As more and more states need a government bailout money, that opens the door for the government to gain total control over every state. All states eventually will become districts to the Federal government and all governors will be appointed to the Federal districts. Look for Obama to be appointed dictator for life in the next eight years as none of this works out the way it's suppose to.

Third, expect a shooting rebellion in this country as some states and citizens will not roll over and play dead. I expect Islam to play a big part in the up coming rebellion.

Fourth, DO NOT EXPECT any help from the Republican Party as they no longer exist. The Republican Party has merged with the Democrat Party to become what it once was, the Democrat/Republican Party. That to me has become self-evident.

I'm not sure that going long on gold is the answer. Gold is selling for less than it did in 1980. On the other hand, I don't know what is the answer.

We need some organization which will allow us to coalesce and take back America, but what is that? I fear it's not the Republicans. They shot themselves in the foot by giving up their principles. Right wing groups like the Libertarians are too inept to get even city councilmen elected. The tea parties were a good way to blow off steam--one time. But now what?

Here's an earlier article on this topic:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/05/news/companies/chrysler_loans/?postversion=2009050517

Your conclusions could,quite possibly, be spot on. I can see how you would argue your point. I am wondering,however, what are the shorter term strategies? If we are on the slippery slope, as you suggest, what is your advice? Also ,is there nothing that will change the eventual outcome?

The short answer is no.

A friend of mine the other day said the greatest freedom we have is the freedom to fail. When you give up the freedom to fail you give up the freedom to succeed. No body wants to fail.

In my tag line I say, "Self-reliance, free thinking, and capitalism is anathema to both the power of the government and the Church." This defines conservatism. Know of any conservatives out there?

Actually it's not. It closed at $977/oz on Friday, and will probably be making a pretty steep upleg very soon, if the charts are to be believed.

I'm sure some people get tired of me harping on this, but gold and silver are really the only alternative. They are money, period. If you don't think that this is true, do some research, and you will find that the only people who don't want you to think so are those that want to have the ability to create paper dollars at will in order to tax you through inflation for programs you don't want. This includes bailouts of crony capitalists, social programs, and military adventures overseas. If the Government had to pay for these through direct taxation, there would be rebellion tomorrow.

If precious metals aren't money, why are the other Central banks around the world, such as China, Russia, the OPEC countries and Germany increasing their reserves? Why has Germany demanded that the 1200 Tonnes of their gold held "in trust" by the Federal Reserve at the Mint at West Point be returned, and not in some paper instrument, but in real honest to God bars?

PM's are money, and have been so for 5000 years. Just because the bullion banks (JP Morgan, Government Sachs, and HSBC-USA) have managed to keep the price of gold/silver in US$'s low through sales, leases and outright manipulation on the COMEX, doesn't change that. PM's are no ones liability, they are always worth something, and will preserve your wealth in both inflationary and deflationary times. Would you rather have your pension in gold/silver bullion that you hold, or in GM or Chrysler bonds? Lehman Bros. or Bear Stearns stock?

This country was founded on the principals of coined money made of gold and silver, and all contracts being settled in either. No paper bills of credit were to be allowed. That ended in 1913 with the establishment of the Federal Reserve. The citizens have been losing value of their money ever since, and we're reaching the end game of paper fiat currencies. You are unfortunate enough to be living through it, and it won't be pretty. Your choice is to protect yourself with something that is no ones liability or promise, or to trust those who have made the hash of what is our present system to fix it. I wish you luck on your decision.

what so many people don't understand, is that the American Big Three Auto Makers have been losing money in the car biz for years if not a couple of decades.....

what has kept them afloat, and companies like GE, is that they have invested heavily in the financial world, and profits there have kept their doors open....


GM owning GMAC and Diatech Loans for example, selling mortgages etc. Ford and GE have heavily invested in leasing out capital equipment for example.. these have brought in huge profits, that offset their losses in auto manufacturing and slumping sales, and paying for all these Union Benefits.....

Well they overleveraged themselves, lost their shirts, and just like banks, expect the American public to bail them out via governmental loans.

it is poor business practices that have them all in debt now and failing... they prefer to call it aggressive business plans, when in reality it is just poor business practices and high risk investments....

of course the public is now use to fiscal irresponsibility by the government, and lives with it as long as welfare is free and flowing.... so why are we all shocked when the corporate world does the same and fails?

both sides have ran the country into the ground... but corporate execs are hurting as they get big bonuses, and how many of our politicians in Washington are being financially screwed over?

those responsible for it all, aren't feeling an ounce of pain, yet they expect all of us to bail them out.....

I say we don't bail them out... we reoganize the companies.. but those responsible have their assets seized.... and given a suite in the Gitmo or Leavenworth Hilton for a decade or so...

politicians and corporate CEOs alike....

This has all been very enlightening. I will preface my remarks by saying that almost all of the information I have comes from the radio. I spend around three and a half hours a day in my pickup commuting to and from work. With that having been said: Lets take Chrysler for example. It has been reported that, through the bankruptcy court, The UAW has received a 55% share in Chrysler. But the company ,in some form, is being sold to an European car manufacture. In effect are they moving the checkbook offshore? If that is the case, has the UAW taken a dose of their poison? Afterall, wasn't one of the major problems, the cost of the pension fund amoung other union rules, that put Chrysler in tough times. If Chrysler couldn't make it work, how are a group of union officials going to? With the operational directions coming from offshore, along with the financial decisions, their 55% stake doesn't mean much. Doesn't seem like a sound financial decision to me. With all of that, why is the government pushing this plan so hard. Don't make sence to me. This is just one of the several things that I don't understand.

The UAW is getting $10 Billion in cash, as well as a 55% stake via stock. The bondholders are getting .20 on the dollar in the form of common stock-essentially getting screwed. This whole thing is an abrogation of contract law, as bondholders should be 1st in line for being made whole and the employees last. Fiat is also getting a sweet deal, because they get to take a large stake-20%-in the company for no money. If the giveaway to Fiat isn't approved, then Chrysler will be forced to liquidate. Here are the particulars from "The Autoblog".


When the transaction is completed, the Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (VEBA) will own 55 percent of the new company and the U.S. and Canadian governments will own proportionate shares of a 10 percent stake. Fiat will initially hold a 20 percent ownership stake in Chrysler. Fiat will have the right to increase its ownership stake an additional 15 percent in three increments as it meets the following criteria: 5 percent for bringing a 40 mpg vehicle platform to Chrysler to be produced in the U.S.; 5 percent for providing a fuel-efficient engine family to be produced in the U.S. for use in Chrysler vehicles; and 5 percent for providing Chrysler access to its vast global distribution network to facilitate the export of Chrysler vehicles. Fiat cannot become a majority owner until after all U.S. government loans have been completely repaid.

As a part of the restructuring, most manufacturing operations will be temporarily idled effective Monday, May 4, 2009. Normal production schedules will resume when the transaction is completed, which is anticipated within 30 to 60 days.

Thank you for clearing that up. That makes more sense. What I was hearing did not make anysense