Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game What's the BEST Brush-Busting cartridge for elk & moose you would you use ?

If I am not sure I can kill the animal, I do not shoot. It's that simple. I think the animal deserves that from us hunters.

Joseph

Another thing to think about is that a bullet is going to be deflected only a little off its path if the target is right behind the brush, and the brush is teeny little stuff, as opposed to a target that is a longer distance behind the deflected bullet. Deflection means it changes direction, and the farther it travels, the more the bullet gets off its intended path.
I wouldn't hesitate to shoot at an animal standing right behind ferns, say, but I'd hold off if it was a long ways behind the ferns. I also would hold off shooting if the brush had any size at all to it.
So in my case, a 35 Whelen is the best brush-busting cartridge for elk and moose, because that's what I'd be shooting...unless I had my 340 or my 270.

An open space in the brush has always worked well for me.

Caliber/bullet weight just don't matter that much. You hit brush, it will deflect, regardless. You put a decent bullet into the right spot, it still doesn't matter that much... Beyond that, there are so many variables here that there is no good predicting. It's like pissing into the wind and trying to predict the blow-back drops that will hit you.

The closer to the animal that the deflection occurs, the better for you, as the extent of the deflection whatever the situation/caliber/bullet weight will likely be less. Probably. Maybe.

I don't shoot through screening brush with .22's or .338 250 grains, or anything else I might use..

Now, what caliber/bullet weight to thread that hole in the brush- that is a legitimately debatable question...

Alright, a test I referenced earlier...

This is how one set-up looked for my 30-30:


The 170 Core-Lokts on target:



I will admit to having fun hunting bunnies with a little M94 Trapper in 45 Colt. If a hare-y target chose to "hide" behind the trunk of a frozen 3-4" alder, so what. 300 stately grains of metal are still very lethal coming out the back side. (And besides, a cloud of fur is helpful in marking the well camo-ed quarry when they've tipped over. )

Point taken.

I was thinking more of that quarter inch unseen-through-the-scope-branch 15 yards this side of that moose.... found the branch.... but no blood or hair, or hit-indication behavior-wise, other than a flat out bolt moose-wise..

Them 250 gr. .338 rounds are hell on twigs....

On the original pics, I'd take the moose at the base of the hump, slightly to the left of central, breaking his spine.

Pass on the elk. (again, slightly to the left of central would likely take him, but that's not a shot I'd take in this perspective)
)

Pretty obvious that your crappy bullet failed to expand while travelling sideways. Must have been a Barnes......

as long as gun writers write nonsense that enthusiasts want to believe as truth the myth of the brush buster will live on...the next article I now expect to see is "Hoots rates the best brush busters"...

I use a 61 cc Husqvarna for busting brush. That way you have some nice shooting lanes that are clear for bullet flight path.

If it will help feed the local homeless shelter I would think any cartridge worthy of a hail Mary through the brush shot. Thy bait is strong(grin)

I have several rifles that I use for elk and Moose these days..The .338 Win with 300 gr. Woodleighs, 375 H&H with 350 gr. Woodleighs, and the 9.3x62 with 320 gr. Woodleighs..All for use in the thick black timber of Idaho where I hunt elk and all shots are fairly close and almost always jump shots that are going away..

These calibers and bullets will stick their nose in the dirt before they go to the bottom of the divide, mostly they just buckle and go down at the shot..

In the sage brush hills I opt for lighter bullets but not much lighter as I will take whatever shot is offered within reason..

I use these calibers and bullets to kill the animal as he goes away from me as I can get complete penetration, but not to shoot through thick bush..I don't usually do that unless I can find a hole to shoot through at a standing animal. Shooting through the thick stuff is a low percentage shot and a recipe for wounding IMO, again within reason.

I shot a number of elk with the 25-35, 30-30 and 250 Savage in my youth, then the 30-06, 270 and such calibers..They perform best with broadside shots, the 30-06 with 180 and 200 gr. Noslers or 180 monolithics, may be the exception, but not by much, so I will call it a bare minimum for going away shots on elk....My personal opine only.

Start with a 460 WBY with a 500 grainer at about 2600. If that's too much for you, work your way down. Inane answer to another "best" thread.

Wayne

If you have any respect for the animal you whistle and shoot them when they turn around. Otherwise let them walk!
Elmer Keith liked a .338 with 300 grain slugs. I think he liked the 400 Whelen even better.
If you are the guy who practices all the time then you would take a head shot. Be advised your taxidermist may hate you for it!
I have some 275 gr Barnes originals for my 35 Whelen that might have a chance at nudging a few twigs aside.
It all depends on how much brush and how close it is to the animal. Let the homeless people eat salami!
whelennut

Somebody on here posted to the effect that it probably would be OK to shoot through light stuff just in front of the animal.

A decade ago I was hunting eland in Namibia with a .338 Winchester Magnum and 250-grain Nosler Partitions loaded to 2700+ fps. This might seem like a decent brush-busting load to some people. When I finally got the shot it was at 200 yards, with the bull standing broadside in the open--except for a little thorn-twig about the diameter of my little finger right in front of the shoulder pocket. I knew I couldn't hit that twig with a whole box of shells, so aimed for the top of the heart anyway.

At the shot all three of us (me, the PH and a friend) could see dust fly right where I aimed. The bull ran off behind some nearby brush before I could shoot again, but the PH was so certain of a dead eland he turned and shook my hand.

We waited a minute or two then followed up. When we got around the brush where the eland had run, we were quite surprised to find the bull 100 yards away, still standing. I gave him another through the lungs and he went down.

When we walked up on him there was a perfect silhouette of a 250-grain .338 Partition in the skin, right where I'd aimed. The thorn-twig was had been so close to the bull that we also found little swirls in the hair around the silhouette, where the thorns had whipped against his hide. So in a matter of inches a 250-grain bullet had been turned sideways by a twig.

I have run my own brush-busting tests and couldn't find anything that got through light (1/8" to 1/4") twigs consistently. Oddly enough the best caliber in my test was a .243 Winchester with 105-grain Speer spitzers handloaded to near 3000 fps--because the slim bullets would sometimes find their way through the brush without hitting any of it, unlike the fatter, heavier, blunter, slower bullets that in theory are real brush mowers, including a .358 Winchester with 250-grain roundnoses and a .45-70 with 405-grain flatnoses.

I have also had a variety of super-tough bullet deflected by brush, including 160-grain 7mm Fail Safe and Barnes TSX bullets, and a 168-grain .30 TSX from. They never even touched the animal they were aimed at. In those cases I thought I was shooting through brush thin enough that the bullet could be aimed into a hole, but it didn't work. My conclusion from those experiences, along with the eland, is that bullets often find brush on their own!

A long time ago I had a friend who's dad probably killed about a million deer and he said he considered the best brush gun to be a .270. That surprised me and I asked him why - he said a smaller bullet has a better chance of getting through brush without hitting it. Then he laughed at the notion that any bullet won't be thrown off course if it hits a twig. Kind of makes sense.

JB; Very enlightening! I never would have thought that would be the case, but I know of no instance where I shot through brush and could say conclusively that I had a different experience than what you say.
Were you able to determine what damage the keyholed 338/250 did? I would think it would have hit him pretty hard, even though sideways.

There are two "twigs" hanging in our hunting cabin; both shot by the same fella.

The first is a dogwood about 1.5"-2" diameter, with a nice .30 caliber hole in one side, and a hell of an exit hole and splintered opening on the other.

A .30-30 bullet from 65 yards dead centered that sapling, punched through, and then did yeoman's work on the 8-point buck on the other side. The buck as about the same color as the sapling, and the sapling wasn't seen until after the deer was recovered, and yes, there were a few splinters in the hide of that deer; it was that close to the tree.

The second is a dead, half-rotten pine branch with a half-moon cut blasted through one side, and damned near blowing it in half. A load of #4 magnum 12 gauge shot hit that branch at 20 yards, and not a pellet made it to the gobbler just a few feet beyond.

The very first deer hunt I ever went on, I saw a .300 Savage 180 gr. SilverTip detonate the top of an alder, and get deflect JUST enough to hit a 2' DBH hickory instead of the very nice buck it was intended for; the deflection was only a matter of inches at 50 yards (hit the alder at 15 yards), but it was enough.

I personally missed a very nice gobbler this spring when a twig smaller than a pencil got the .221 Fireball bullet intended for that long beard, and the same turkey had an identical bullet deflected two weeks later (by another hunter) by a single strand of barbed wire. Damned lucky bird............

Brush does funky stuff to bullets, and your best bet is always to shoot AROUND the brush, not through it.

I missed two deer with a 45-70 because of brush.
I also missed a doe with a .54 muzzleloader, killed about a 2" tree trunk though.
That is probably why the 742 Remington is so popular up north.
So darn many trees in the way! They just pound away until a bullet gets through!
The same theory applies in the shotgun slug zone, Remington 1100 slug guns dominate, and the owners brag about how many boxes of shells they go through. We have lots of brush in Minnesota, the deer hide in it!
whelennut

First of all, there is no brush bucking bullet. Slow heavy bullets have been proven time and time again to deflect as much as lighter faster bullets. For me, I pick a ham and let her rip on the shots above. I don't shoot for the bung hole or try to get the bullet to the vitals by shooting through the paunch. That is a lot to ask of any bullet. But when you break the pelvic, upper leg bone, or the heavy ham muscles, there are TONS of arteries and what the bullet doesn't wreck, the shattering bone will.

Shooting through brush that is close to the animal isn't going to change the path of the bullet enough to matter. Is it unethical or a "stunt"? Not at all, as long as the cartridge, the shooter and the bullet are to the task. I wouldn't shoot a .22-250 through the brush at anything but a coyote.

I have put a lot of meat in the freezer shooting through light brush. I have also shot a lot going straight away, again, I pick a ham and break the pelvic. They go right down.

It doesn't matter if it is the last day or not. I hear the old saying, "I will never shoot an animal in the butt. It wastes too much meat." That statement is a real yawner. There is very little meat lost when you compare maybe 5 lbs. of blood shot meat to 250 lbs. of good meat on an elk. I say, "Whoopti do, better to get 245 lbs. of meat than no meat at all!" Shots are seldom perfect when hunting public land. The perfect broadside pasture shots of elk (or anything else) standing still feeding are so rare. It all boils down to knowing your weapon, being able to shoot it well and knowing the anatomy of the animal in the sights. I have heard it a million times from guys on here and at the range, "I would never take a walking shot, a shot facing away or of any animal in the pictures above." The first animal that pops out, they start throwing lead at, especially on a trophy hunt or on a long hunt where the animals have been tough to find. Each to his own, but I have no problem shooting through a bit of brush, within reason. You have to know you best. Each person knows their limits and they need to hunt/shoot within those limits. Flinch

30 WCF is good though not "best."

No such thing as "brush busting," but this one'll take 'em down at the ranges you run into in dense cover.