Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Robert S. McNamara is Dead

McNamara�s strategy of �cost effectiveness� won the Cold War. The Soviets who paid scant attention to costs went bankrupt.

In addition to promoting weapons standardization, McNamara backed submarine-launched ballistic missiles that the Soviets could never counter. Had the military gotten their way, the navy would have built more aircraft carriers for a �Forward Strategy,� the air force would have built more high-flying un-stealthy bombers, and the Soviets would have easily countered us.

McNamara did let the generals get their way in operational planning. Our Vietnam strategy was devised by the brass who predicted a short and easy war. McNamara�s �Whiz Kids� stayed out of operational planning for Vietnam but correctly concluded that the strategy promoted by the generals was a losing one (Enthoven, "How Much is Enough").

A better strategy for Vietnam would have been to cut off the infiltration by holding a line from the DMZ to Thailand. The South Vietnamese proposed that but Westmoreland and the brass ignored it. The senior officers in our military have already accepted blame for Vietnam (Summers, "On Strategy"). Let�s not denigrate McNamara, the real hero of the Cold War.

Good,way late.

Those who worship the JFK "Camelot" need to be reminded that Kennedy hired the man who thought up the Edsel to "remake" our military.

So McNamara is dead, I'll drink to that! The SOB could have gotten me killed for what he knew was a lost cause. I reported for induction (draft, #58, [bleep] deferments) and they sent us all home because word was out that the draft would end the next day. Was nice, I got to finish school before signing up.

This is a joke right?

I am pissed that a lot o good men were killed or captured because him and the idiot he worked for decided they could run the war and especially some of the air war issues.


His admission in his later years were his way of think he deserved sympathy.

For all those dead and those who were captured thanks to his and johnson's military expertise i hope he rots in hell.

I could say what I really think, but then I may work myself up to a "Big Huff".

I think a lot of the anger hear should at least be partially directed at McCarthy and the Red Scare in the early 50s. After the fall of China to communism there was many accusations that the government, and particulary the state department, was infiltrated with communists. Because of this many of the experts on the Asian region in the state department left. Later the US fought a defensive war in Vietnam, trying to avoid confrontation with China like with the Korean war. Without the asian experts the significance of the Sino-Soviet split wasn't realized until during the Nixon presidency with reaproachment, which helped lead to a US pullout of Vietnam and ultimaly detente. In fact, during the Vietnam War the Chinese were keeping materials that were shipped through China from the USSR to Vietnam. If the US had realized the significace of the split they might have won.

alot of THUD pilots ended up in the Hanoi Hilton because of this guy.

It was General Westmoreland that outlined the 3-point plan to win the war in Vietnam. He predicted victory by 1967 (U.S. Department of Defense, U.S.-Vietnam Relations vol. 4, pp 117�119. and vol. 5, pp 8�12).

President Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara gave General Westmoreland all the men and material he originally asked for. When it was clear that Westmoreland�s strategy had failed, McNamara quit. Clark Clifford, who replaced McNamara, asked the generals what our new strategy should be. The generals had no winning strategy to replace Westmoreland�s failed strategy.

The North Vietnamese strategy was to fight a protracted war and outlast us. Kissinger and Nixon knew that we could not win a protracted war. In an attempt to negotiate �peace with honor,� they prosecuted the war longer than McNamara did and blamed the loss on the South Vietnamese.

In the end, the senior officers of the military accepted blame for the military failure in Vietnam (Summers, �On Strategy�). McNamara�s �Whiz kids� should have questioned the generals more forcefully instead of letting them go forward with their flawed Vietnam strategy. Fortunately, the "Whiz Kids" prevailed with their "cost effectiveness" strategy to bankrupt the Soviets and win the Cold War.

Actually the McCarthy "Red Scare" was accurate, sort of. He claimed there were only about 8 or 9 embedded Soviet agents in our administration. in 1992 when the Soviet union collapsed and KGB records revealed, it was closer to 100. McCarthy was right, he was just vilified unfairly. As to Westmoreland, he was given a set of rules that he couldn't deviate. The bombing of the North was strictly a McNamara/LBJ/DoD issue. The "Route Packs" there were six, were all crafted by them and there was NO deviation. So all the gooks had to do was concentrate their AAA & SAMs along those routes and shoot us down at will. We weren't allowed to bomb the railways coming from China, nor the ports dams, etc. I remember reading back then when the Pentagon complained about a Cuban cargo ship, full of sugar left Havana, proceeded through OUR Panama Canal, went all the way to N. Korea and unloaded. Loaded up with ammo, SAMs & other war supplies, then sailed south right under the noses of our 7th Fleet and disgorged it's cargo in Haiphong. McNamara and LBJ FORBADE us to interfere. Piss on his grave. jorge

All this "woulda coulda shoulda" retrospective musing is cute but pointless. To understand Vietnam, you had to have been there long enough for all your clothes to turn pink-orange and rot off your body.

To those of us who were there, McNamara and Johnson were the original Dumb and Dumber, except that their idiocy got lots of our brothers killed or tortured. Nothing can change that, not even their late-in-life realizations and admissions.

And because that fact cannot be changed, neither can the minds of Viet Vets.

Six points for Rocky.

Was kinda used to that laterite blush on my clothes...skin....teeth....still have some socks that look like that.

McNamara is the guy who came up with his Vietnam "bullets per body count" formula. You fired so many bullets, or rockets, whatever, you were expected to have so many bods dead. He also tried to save money by removing one button from the rear pocket of khaki uniforms.

I used to teach aboard the U.S.S. America, a McNamara ship that was plumbed with construction grade plumbing (among other cost saving steps)rather than ship-grade plumbing. It was constantly leaking and the ship was worn out albeit after 30-something years. This was the story; don't know if it was true.

I think he was a dip in life, but don't wish him ill after his death. I don't think he was evil, he was just a jerk and a number-crunching dickweed.

It's true. Both America (CV 66) and JFK (CV 67) were originally supposed to be nukes and McNamara (and under pressure form the Kennedy klan) changed them both to oil burners. Both ships had HUGE piping issues contributing for early retirement of both ships. jorge

PS: Great post Rocky. j

BC

The protestors I encountered were anything but heroes. A bunch of jerk, rebellious, vulgar, hell-raising dopers usually. About as worthless a group of indiviuals as I've ever met. Sadly they have grown up to control the US's education system.

Only a Viet vet (and I'm not one) can completely understand their hatred of McNamara, but it includes things like the micromanaging mentioned above, restraining field commanders efforts and such. IMHO he shares the guilt of Viet Nam with Johnson, Westmoreland (to a lesser extent) and a lot of others whose names we've forgotten.

One of his "successes" was to apply business purchasing practices (standardization) to the DoD - I thought that was a good idea until talking to an Army combat engineer vet. Chuck started out with an M14 and was switched to the early M16 mid-tour; he explained what a comfort it was in the middle of the long dark night to know that his rifle had been supplied by the lowest bidder.

Son, EVERYTHING in the military came from the lowest bidder - even those infamous $600 toilet seats. Ponder THAT a while.

About 99% of the cost of everything the government buys is for the paperwork the government demands from companies, beginning with the reams of documentation just for the privilege of bidding. Consider what your taxes would be if all that "stuff" came from the highest bidder. Not a pretty thought.

I'm a Viet Nam vet who doesn't hate anyone from that period. Less than fond of some, but Hate? Nah.

What's to hate McNamara for? He was a lousy S of D, but so have 90% of the other S o Ds since then, and likely before then.

So much vitriol! It diminishes "hate" if you're willing to squander such an emotion on someone like McNamara.