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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
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Why I gave up the .22mag. Not a single person mentioned Lent???
George Associate Gypsy Order of Sleepless Knights ... That is when I carried you ...
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 23,034 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 23,034 Likes: 6 |
Planemech: You are attempting something that is just not possible.
And that is to contradict reality!
Your quote: "Funny on anything more voracious than paper my .22WMR kills better than the .17HMR my friend has. We tried it. Yes the .17 is flatter by a bit, and yes it's sub MOA and my .22 mag is just MOA. Still when the push comes to shove 30+ grains beats 17 to 20 every time". End quote.
The weight of a bullet is NOT the only "factor" involved in the actual lethality of a round!
I fire literally thousands of rounds of 17 HMR ammunition at and into Varmints of all kinds and sizes EVERY YEAR!
And have done so for over 6 (six) years now!
Before that I used many and varied models and renditions of various 22 Magnums and Specials on Varmints - again of all kinds and sizes.
The 17 HMR is so far superior to the 22 Magnum that I feel that explains the recent virtually complete conversion of rimfire Hunters to the 17 HMR over the 22 Magnum.
I have hosted and Hunted alongside dozens of different Varminters this year so far - NOT 1 (ONE) of these serious Varminters used a 22 Magnum.
Yet I know many if not most of them do own 22 Magnums! They just leave the 22 Magnums at home anymore.
Many of the Varminters I have Hunted alongside this year have had more than one 17 HMR Rifle along with them!
Its not just me - I have no particular bone to pick with the 22 Magnums nor a financial interest in any cartridge - its just the reality of the 17 HMR's superiority!
I have now killed 9 Badgers with the 17 HMR cartridge.
Each one was a one shot kill.
My first Badger killt with the 17 HMR was several years ago and it was a long, head on shot. I killed that big Boar Badger DRT with one shot right in the throat! Once at the Badgers den mouth I had time to Leica laser back to the front grill of my VarmintMobile, where I had shot from, and the Leica laser reading was 173 yards!
And I was shooting from the tailgate over the roof of my canopy past the grill so I add two yards to that shot making that a 175 yard one shot kill on a big Badger with my 17 HMR!
I would not even have tried that shot with a 22 Magnum - I know better.
I have shot at and into lots of Badgers with 22 Magnums over the years and the results have been poor at best.
Then, once pictures were taken of that Badger, my partner and I returned to the VarmintMobile and resumed Ground Squirrel Hunting. It was not 30 minutes later when another Badger came out of the ground at virtually the same distance and my partner Jack Veness of Yelm, Washington killed that Badger with his 17 HMR.
I have killt all manner of Varmints from Coyote on down to Weasels with my 17 HMR's and also have harvested large Porcupine, Rock Chucks, field lions (feral cats), Raccoons, Jack Rabbits, Prairie Dogs, Fox, Wild Turkey, Ground Squirrels, Skunks (now these need to be killed quickly!), flying type Varmint birds and several other types of Varmints and small game.
The 22 Magnum does not hold a candle to the lethality of the 17 HMR.
Your argument is not working on me nor on the legions of other small game and Varmint Hunters who have switched to the 17 HMR.
Again remember (or prove it to yourself!) there is a lot more to lethality of a cartridge than just bullet weight.
Yes, Varmints can be killed with the various 22 Magnums but the minor increase in lethality and range over the 22 L.R makes it simply not cost worthy to use the 22 Magnums anymore.
Long live the new King of rimfires - the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 52,680 |
17 HMR sucks! 
Liberalism is a mental disorder that leads to social disease.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,200
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,200 |
The 17 HMR is certainly an accurate and useful varmint cartridge, but I think that the 17 HM2 and 22 MRF are also useful in their niches.
The 17 HM2 is cheaper to shoot than the 17 HMR by about 50% and offers the same performance out to 100+/- yards. I particularly like it in a Ruger 10/22 conversion as a flat shooting walking-around/woods-loafing plinker.
I think that the 22 MRF is particularly useful in a revolver for shooting snakes with CCI snake-shot loads and as a survival cartridge it can counted on to cleanly take deer/hog sized animals in the hands of a good shot. Those are 2 small areas where the 17 HMR is not a viable option.
Jeff
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,146 Likes: 9
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,146 Likes: 9 |
Glad we cleared up the applicability of the HMR to larger game, what with its incumbent limitations. What I've found is that when you move up to those bone crushing heavyweights like the 29 grain short it opens new horizons. I know size isn't everything, but if it's bigger you don't have to move it so fast. I've always thought placement had something to do with it. Maybe a .22 WMR with a FMJ could do the same...ought to try that one of these days. ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/DSCN2953.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/DSCN2968-1.jpg)
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,200 |
I have heard that the COs who do herd reduction for crop damage complaints like the suppressed Ruger 10/22 Magnums and claim that they can kill 4 or 5 deer before the groups get disturbed by their friends falling over dead.
I've never shot a deer with a 22 LR, at least that I recall, but I've shot a number of them doing herd reduction or herd improvement with a variety of 22 MRF rifles and can state for the record that a 40 grain JSP through the lungs is quite deadly. For a North American survival rifle in places where there isn't any dangerous game, big bears, it is hard to beat a 22 MRF in a rifle or, maybe even better, an old Savage 24 combination gun. The old Rossi 59 carbines, copies of the Winchester 1890/1906/62, in 22 MRF break down small enough to find in a pretty small space, if space to carry a survival type weapon is limited.
Jeff
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2002
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TCI, your post said "why I gave up the 22 Mag" yet you showed results of a 22WRF in a smooth bore pistol??. So when I called B.S. ---I was right on! You are full of it. You are misleading people that may depend on that little gun for some protection. You convinced on person(jimmyp) to leave it at home. I hope everyone follows this thread and realizes that not all pictures and posts can be trusted. I hope no one leaves their NAA pistol at home because of your BS post.
If you really like something,you better buy two!
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,648
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,648 |
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,933
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,933 |
I've killed several large dogs, a couple of deer, and 4-5 yotes with the .22mag and winchester HP's, not to mention a whole bunch of smaller stuff. Have never felt the need to try the .17 rounds,,, why bother if it ain't broke don't fix it, of course I'm not shooting at alot of little bitty critters wayyyy out there. I am either shooting at strays or game animals in the woods, there the .22 mag needs no improvement
Location Western NC,
after alot of other places
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920 |
260Rem...could you please describe the reaction to the hit a deer does when hit with a .22 Magnum... I never plan on "hunting" deer with a .22 Magnum but it is my #1 survival round...
And you are right...the Savage 24 .22 Magnum/20 ga. makes the ideal "truck" gun....
Thanks...Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
TCI, your post said "why I gave up the 22 Mag" yet you showed results of a 22WRF in a smooth bore pistol??. So when I called B.S. ---I was right on! You are full of it. You are misleading people that may depend on that little gun for some protection. You convinced on person(jimmyp) to leave it at home. I hope everyone follows this thread and realizes that not all pictures and posts can be trusted. I hope no one leaves their NAA pistol at home because of your BS post. No you weren't. I gave a good description of what happened and showed a picture of the results. The post and picture were there for thinking people to read and look at the results. Nothing on the post was misleading or erroneous. It wasn't a test nor did I present it as one. I had/have no agenda, nor did I give you any reason to act like the rude a**hole you've shown yourself to be. Terry
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,200 |
Shot through the head, they usually fall over dead.
Shot through the lungs, they usually run about 10 or 15 yards and act like many arrow-shot deer do. When I was culling, using a Ruger 10/22 Magnum, I'd usually double-tap them, just to be sure.
Jeff
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Planemech: You are attempting something that is just not possible.
And that is to contradict reality!
Your quote: "Funny on anything more voracious than paper my .22WMR kills better than the .17HMR my friend has. We tried it. Yes the .17 is flatter by a bit, and yes it's sub MOA and my .22 mag is just MOA. Still when the push comes to shove 30+ grains beats 17 to 20 every time". End quote.
The weight of a bullet is NOT the only "factor" involved in the actual lethality of a round!
I fire literally thousands of rounds of 17 HMR ammunition at and into Varmints of all kinds and sizes EVERY YEAR!
And have done so for over 6 (six) years now!
Before that I used many and varied models and renditions of various 22 Magnums and Specials on Varmints - again of all kinds and sizes.
The 17 HMR is so far superior to the 22 Magnum that I feel that explains the recent virtually complete conversion of rimfire Hunters to the 17 HMR over the 22 Magnum.
I have hosted and Hunted alongside dozens of different Varminters this year so far - NOT 1 (ONE) of these serious Varminters used a 22 Magnum.
Yet I know many if not most of them do own 22 Magnums! They just leave the 22 Magnums at home anymore.
Many of the Varminters I have Hunted alongside this year have had more than one 17 HMR Rifle along with them!
Its not just me - I have no particular bone to pick with the 22 Magnums nor a financial interest in any cartridge - its just the reality of the 17 HMR's superiority!
I have now killed 9 Badgers with the 17 HMR cartridge.
Each one was a one shot kill.
My first Badger killt with the 17 HMR was several years ago and it was a long, head on shot. I killed that big Boar Badger DRT with one shot right in the throat! Once at the Badgers den mouth I had time to Leica laser back to the front grill of my VarmintMobile, where I had shot from, and the Leica laser reading was 173 yards!
And I was shooting from the tailgate over the roof of my canopy past the grill so I add two yards to that shot making that a 175 yard one shot kill on a big Badger with my 17 HMR!
I would not even have tried that shot with a 22 Magnum - I know better.
I have shot at and into lots of Badgers with 22 Magnums over the years and the results have been poor at best.
Then, once pictures were taken of that Badger, my partner and I returned to the VarmintMobile and resumed Ground Squirrel Hunting. It was not 30 minutes later when another Badger came out of the ground at virtually the same distance and my partner Jack Veness of Yelm, Washington killed that Badger with his 17 HMR.
I have killt all manner of Varmints from Coyote on down to Weasels with my 17 HMR's and also have harvested large Porcupine, Rock Chucks, field lions (feral cats), Raccoons, Jack Rabbits, Prairie Dogs, Fox, Wild Turkey, Ground Squirrels, Skunks (now these need to be killed quickly!), flying type Varmint birds and several other types of Varmints and small game.
The 22 Magnum does not hold a candle to the lethality of the 17 HMR.
Your argument is not working on me nor on the legions of other small game and Varmint Hunters who have switched to the 17 HMR.
Again remember (or prove it to yourself!) there is a lot more to lethality of a cartridge than just bullet weight.
Yes, Varmints can be killed with the various 22 Magnums but the minor increase in lethality and range over the 22 L.R makes it simply not cost worthy to use the 22 Magnums anymore.
Long live the new King of rimfires - the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
VG, Can you please hit the enter key every now and then? Travis
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881 |
It would depend on the .22 Magnum. I remember two bay area cops who were killed by a BG armed with a 3 inch, Hi-Standard DA, Derringer .22 Magnum. The first was shot in the heart at about 3 feet. Dead before he hit the ground. His partner, who had been standing next to him, took a round in the stomach. He got off four rds, all misses, before he too died.
I've used a .22 RF magnum for many years on small game, Ruger SS Converible w/ 5.5 inch barrel. Kills ground squirrels and Jack Rabbits much better than the same gun does with any .22 RF ammo. Even took out a small sidewinder rattle snake with a bird shot rd.
As far as the larger animals like coyotes goes, there is no comparision. The little .17's do far worse. Whereas the .22 RFM is consider entirely adequate at the shorter, under 100 yds., called predators. E
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,597 |
terry, just curious as to what .22mag load you used on that board... i have yet to come across an unjacketed .22mag load...
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,933
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,933 |
That looks mucm more like a .22 LR subsonic or squib
Location Western NC,
after alot of other places
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Posts: 7,920
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920 |
...it wasn't .22 Magnum...it was .22 WRF (Winchester Rim Fire)
"As for the ammo, I don't remember the brand. I didn't think I would need to. I know it was 22WRF because I loaded the gun myself once."
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,933
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,933 |
I see so It's not a .22mag round stuck in the board? Didn't thonk it was anyway. I've shot a few critters over the years with the .22mag in a 6 inch revolver, no 1 inch pine board is gonna stop it within any reasonable distance,
Location Western NC,
after alot of other places
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,375
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,375 |
Wow this is starting to rival some of the great topics of the past. I am sure glad I didn't quit on my 22 magnums now.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 861
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 861 |
I've had a NAA.22mag for a good many years,and have fired it a lot, as well as it's .22 long rifle cylinder that came with it.I've never "TESTED"the little gun,but,I have shot a lot of different targets with it.The .22LR will tear a sheet of 3/4in.plywood all to sh--,so will the .22 mag,at distances of 15ft. and more.These same rounds will also go through both sides of 55gal. oil drums,at the same distances, and leave nasty exit holes.I can't figure out what happened to your gun.the ammo had to have been bad.
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